Ali Slovenci poznate svoje korenine?


	•	Quaderni Veneti di Coscienza Etnica


	•	Ne prihajamo izza Karpatov


	•	Dr. Savli's comments on I Veneti antichi, gli sloveni e i bellunesi by Millo Bozzolan


	•	The Veneti Theory Resists and so does Carantania!

	•	REITIA Dea dei Veneti

	•	Trg" (market)

	•	VESELIA FELICETAS...., a critical view

•

Veselia Felicetas - An Ideological Scientific Play - Zeljko Nincevic

	•	Ancient ashes found buried in Rome (United Press International)

	•	Vindhya parvata

	•	Found: Europe's oldest civilisation

	•	The Slovieni

	•	Slovenskie kljuci

	•	Slovieni - Veneti in Russia a new addition has been added by Igor Pirnovar

	English: http://sloveneti.tripod.com/veg/e/Ven/slovieni_rusia_e.html

	Slovene: http://sloveneti.tripod.com/veg/s/Ven/slovieni_rusia_s.html


	•	Alexander The Great

	•	How it all begun - Borut Prah

	•	The Veneti


	•	The Venetians - our early Ancestors - Ivan Kobal


	•	Timeline of Slovene history - Asean News Network

Links


	•	Slovenšcina, narecja in sanskrt (sanskrit), bretonšcina

	•	Paleoveneti

	•	Oswald Gutsmann: Windische Sprachlehre


	•	Sarmatijos Sueivija. RUGIJA – Rujanen – Rana - Rugen.

Letnik 17 – Št. 193 – avgust 2009

This month's Edition of Misteriji (Lubljana, Slovenija) published an extensive interview with Dr. Šavli, who is also a collaborator of Carantha. The interview, in Slovenian, was conducted by Peter Amalietti and Andreja Paljevec. Because of important questions concerning the history and prehistory not only of Slovenians, but also of the entire Europe, we reproduce the following contents.

Jožko Šavli pravi, da smo Slovenci avtohtoni in nasledniki Venetov.

Ne prihajamo izza Karpatov

Revija Misteriji je v letošnji avgustovski številki objavila daljši pogovor z dr. Šavlijem (Gorica), ki sta ga pripravila Peter Amalietti in Andreja Paljevec. Pogovor ima za naše razmere kar izzivalen naslov Ne prihajamo izza Karpatov. V pogovoru pride do izraza kar nekaj kriticnih ogledov na izvor in na zgodovino Slovencev, ki so jo izmalicile ideologije, predvsem pangermanstvo in panslovanstvo.

V pogovoru poseže povprašani nazaj v predzgodovino. Navedba: Korenina našega alpsko slovanskega jezika sega dalec nazaj, vso do nekega prajezika, je prav blizu mnenju, ki ga navaja tudi ameriški jezikoslovec Charles Bryant – Abraham, in sicer, da je slovenšcina mati slovanskih jezikov.

Slovenci ne izhajamo ne iz Rusije in ne z Balkana, ampak smo avtohtoni in nasledniki ter potomci Vendov, trdi Jožko Šavli, ki dokazuje tudi, da so naši predniki »iznašli« žarni pokop, torej upepeljevanje pokojnikov, pa tudi prvo hišo. Jožko Šavli je prvi Slovenec, ki je v minulem stoletju objavljal knjige o dolgo zatajevani, zamolcani in prikriti zgodovinski resnici o Slovencih. Je prvi, ki je zgodovinsko in topografsko pojasnil, zakaj sta si sanskrt in slovenšcina, ki jo povezuje venetšcina, najbližja jezika; je clovek, ki nam je vrnil karantanski grb - Crnega panterja, nam spet približal vlogo in pomen Knežjega kamna in Vojvodskega stola.

Korenina našega alpsko slovanskega jezika sega dalec nazaj, vse do nekega prajezika.

Šavlijevi pogledi našim prednikom pripisujejo odlocilno vlogo na samem zacetku evropske civilizacije v casu žarnodobnih selitev, nato pa tudi v prvih in najstarejših evropskih venetskih n etrušcanskih kulturah: hallstattski, estenski in villanovski.

Ce zacnemo kar s priimkom, odkod Šavli?

Priimek Šav1i izvira od oceta, ki se je k hiši priženil. Izviren pomen priimka se nanaša na sonce in je dokaj star. V litvanšcini je »šaule« sonce. Priimek ocitno pomeni kmetijo na soncnem kraju. Tukaj pa že trcimo na predzgodovisko kmecko kulturo, o kateri bi bilo treba še marsikaj odkriti. Predvsem to, da Slovenci z našo kmecko kulturo nikakor nismo bili vecni hlapci, kot nam ideologi dopovedujejo, sklicujoc se navadno na Ivana Cankarja. Takšno hlapcevstvo, ki ima ocitno že znacaj neke urocenosti, naj bi trajalo vse od leta 820, ko so Franki porazili kneza Ljudevita v Slavoniji. Ker naj bi se njegovemu uporu pridružili tudi Karantanci, naj bi jim Franki vsled tega odstavili njihovega kneza in plemstvo. Toda v zgodovinskih virih tega ni.

Niti nemškutarsko usmerjena koroška zgodovinarka Claudia Fräß - Ehrfeld tega ne navaja. V Ljubljani pa nam že od prve vojne dalje nenehno trobijo, da smo takrat izgubili svoje plemstvo in kneza in padli za tisoc let pod »nemški jarem«, izpod katerega naj bi nas odrešila šele Jugoslavija leta 1918.

Šavli našim prednikom pripisuje odlocino vlogo na zacetku evropske civilizacije

Naš zadnji veliki plemic je bil menda grof Celjski. V casu protireformacije pa smo izgubili prav vse domace plemstvo, ki se je kot protestantje moralo izseliti.

V tistem casu so Slovenijo morali zapustiti skoraj vsi slovenski plemici. Nekatere plemenite družine, ki so bile katoliške, ali pa so se spet vrnile v katolištvo, so ostale. Nekateri njihovi pripadniki so bili naravnost fantasticni ljudje. Znana je še zlasti rodbina dolenjskih grofov in knezov Turjaških. Nekoliko manj znana, vendar ne manj pomembna, je bila gorenjska rodbina Lamberg. Iz nje izhajata dva škofa v mestu Passau, oba kardinala ...

Naše plemiške rodbine imajo navadno nemške priimke, ker so bili zapisani še preden je slovenšcina postala pismen jezik. Nekatere imajo priimke od priženjenih ocetov, npr. kranjski Valvasor, pa primorski Lanthieri, Coronini ... Zaradi teh priimkov nas prav po osnovnošolsko goljufajo, da smo imeli za vratom kar cela stoletja »Nemce«. Tudi sam sem si v osnovni šoli predstavljal, da so Nemci vsi, ki imajo nemški priimek.

Saj sem tudi jaz Amalietti, a nisem Italijan. Kdaj ste prvic podvomili v šolsko zgodovino?

V osnovni šoli. In zakaj sem podvomil? Zato, ker sem bil dosleden. Šolska razlaga je namrec bile takšna: »Veste, Karantance so ogrožali Obri in so se morali obrniti po pomoc k Bavarcem. Bavarci so prišli pomagat pod pogojem, da naši predniki sprejmejo kršcanstvo. Ko so Obre premagali, so k nam v deželo zaceli prihajati nemški duhovniki.« V moji otroški glavi se je pojavilo vprašanje: Kakšni Nemci, ce pa so bili še malo prej samo Bavarci?

Saj takrat Nemcev sploh ni bilo in jih ni vse do 19. stoletja, kot tudi Italijanov ni bilo pred 19. stoletjem.

Ja, res. In tako zacnejo že leta 745 kar z Nemci. In v moji otroški glavi je bil tukaj nek vozel, in sam pri sebi sem rekel: To ne drži! Vse to mi je ostalo potem v spominu in postopoma so se nizale še druge šolske nedoslednosti. Poskušali so vcepljati v slovensko mišljenje kompleks manjvrednosti in še zlasti zanikanje obstoja slovenske zgodovinske države Karantanije, ki so jo preprosto ukinili z letom 820. Bistveno je bilo izrazoslovje.

V knjigi Jožko Šavli razgrinja dokaze o Karantaniji, ki je temeljila na »karantansko-slovenskem« pravu, ki ga je priznaval atudi takratna Evropa.

Netocne navedbe odkrijem že v zgodovinski knjigi Mi1ka Kosa Zgodovina Slozencev od naselitve do reformacije (Ljubljana 1933). Naselitev je seveda izmišljena, plod obvezne panslovanske in južnoslovanske ideologije. Navadno recejo v takih primerih, ko ni nikakih virov ex silentio (molce sporoca). V omenjeni knjigi nas med drugim preseneti navedba »ogrsko - hrvaško kraljestvo«. Gre za ocitno provokacijo, ceš Hrvati so imeli svojo državo v okviru ogrskega kraljestva, vi Slovenci pa ste bili pod nemškim jarmom. In takšnih sugestij je kar nekaj.

Zgodovinar France Kos, oce zgodovinarja Milka Kosa, ni znal ali pa ni hotel lociti med Slovani in Slovenci. V tem primeru je š1o za avtohtonost Slovencev, zakaj Slovani kot nekakšen skupen pranarod so cisto navaden jezikovni akademski konstrukt. O njih za Karpati ni prav nobenega sledu. France Kos je pobijal še zlasti našo avtohtonost, ki jo je v drugi polovici 19. stoletja odkrival Davorin Trstenjak.

Naši predniki so kot Slovani prišli izza Karpatov preko Balkana v Alpe ...?

Tega v virih ni. Res je, da so slovanski narodi neka jezikovna skupnost, kar pa ne pomeni, da izhajajo iz skupnega pranaroda. V etnološkem pogledu so si popolnoma razlicni. Mi, Slovenci, imamo popolnoma drugo kulturo, navade in custva kot balkanski Slovani. Tukaj se ocitno preliva vec sestavin. Tudi Bolgari niso enaki kot Srbi, potem Crnogorci, ki sicer govorijo srbšcino, a so ocitno ilirskega porekla. Hrvati nimajo izvirnega hrvaškega jezika, kar pa za status naroda ni bistveno.

Kako ste odkrili, da so naši predniki iznašli žarni pogreb in hišo?

Iskal sem po arheološkem gradivu in po drugih virih, tudi jezikoslovnih. Vendar pa arheologi nikoli ne navajajo drugega kot žarnodobno ljudstvo in žarnodobne selitve. Prav tako ne navedejo, da so bili to Veneti. Pac pa nam to odkrito pove italijanski jezikoslovec Giacomo Devoto. Ne pa nemški znanstveniki, ki so žarnodobne selitve še najvec raziskovali. Ceprav so sicer na sploh zelo prizadevni. Po nekem casu so žarnodobna ljudstva zaceli imenovati Kelte. Pri tem pa navajali, da so kulturo Keltov nasledili Germani. O tem še danes norijo na Koroškem.

Kaj so sploh Kelti?

V Veliki Britaniji danes še naletimo na Kelte in njihov irski jezik, ki naj bi bil keltšcina. Vendar ne gre za izvirne Kelte. S celine so namrec selitve Venetov v žarnem in bronastem obdobju zajele tudi britansko otocje, kjer se je nahajalo prebivalstvo Atlantske kulture, menhirji, dolmeni ... Veneti se v tej kulturi zlijejo, vendar zapustijo kar nekaj imen: Ventnor, Windsor... Še v Hadrijanovem zidu je bila trdnjava, ki se je imenovala po Venetih.

Poskušali so vcepljati v slovensko mišjenje kompleks manjvrednosti.

Sam odkrivam, da so Kelti narod s približno istim jezikom kot Veneti, vendar so izhajali iz obmocja jezikov kentum, ki je obsegalo zahodno Afriko in zahodno Evropo. Venetski jezik pa je pripadal jezikom satem, ki so bili razširjeni v južno vzhodni Evropi in na Bllžnjem vzhodu.

Znacilna razlika med temi jeziki sta glasova K in S, ki se v besedah pojavljata, eden ali drugi, na istem mestu. Pri Keltih je bil to glas K, ki je ostajal nezmehcan. Pa tudi Rimljani so od zacetka izgovarjali v takih besedah še K, npr. Kikero, ki je šele v pozni latinšcini postal Cicero. Po mojem mnenju pod venetskim vplivom.

Kdaj ste prvic javno predstavili svoja zgodovinska odkritja?

Svoje poglede sem prvic predstavil v knjigi Veneti - naši davni predniki, ki jo je leta 1985 izdal p. Ivan Tomažic, rektor doma Korotan na Dunaju. Ob tem je završalo po Sloveniji, saj sem prvic postavil ugotovitev, da Slovenci ne izhajamo ne iz Rusije ne z Balkana, ampak smo avtohtoni in nasledniki ter potomci Vendov, Venetov, kakor nas še dandanes naziva sosednji nemški svet. Izhodišce vsega je bila raziskava, kje vse se, predvsem v Srednji Evropi, pojavljajo ime na Vend, Windische, Venden ipd.

Odkril sem, da se na obmocju teh imen pojavljajo tudi arheološka najdišca, žarni grobovi iz žarnodobnih selitev, ki izhajajo iz Lužic oziroma iz lužiške kulture. Nekateri jezikoslovci in arheologi to tudi omenijo. Z arheološkega stališca pa jih navajajo vsi. Vendar do tega, da bi nosilce žarne kulture prikazali kot Venete ali celo kot naše prednike, katerih nasledniki bi bili lahko Vendi - Slovenci, tujci ne pridejo. Pri nas pa tudi ne, zaradi ideologije panslavizma, po kateri moramo izhajati izza Karpatov. Naselitveni tok naših prednikov naj bi prišel v Alpe samo preko Balkana. To je še danes nekakšen postulat vse naše univerze.

Torej slovanstva ni?

Pri Slovencih je temelj družbene organizacije in skupnosti že od nekdaj vas. Vas tvorijo posamezne družine, mi jim pravimo hiše, in vsaka ima v lasti dolocen kos zemlje. Skupni so bili gozdovi in pašniki, obdelovalna zemlja ne. Torej, prav tukaj vidimo razlike v družbeni organizaciji med slovensko tradicijo in južnimi Slovani. Ker pac ne verjamem v »slovanstvo«, to je, da je nekoc obstajal nek narod Slovanov za Karpati, iz katerega naj bi izhajali vsi slovanski narodi.

V srednjeveški Evropi je vsak narod imel svoj grb kot viden znak svoje politicne osebnosti – znak Karantanije je bil crni panter.

Bilo bi nekaj podobnega, ce bi rekli, da vsa špansko govoreca Južna Amerika izhaja iz nekega pranaroda Špancev. In podobno. To, da jezik ni edino merilo za status nekega naroda, nam je danes razumljivo. Razen v primeru »Slovanov«. So tudi narodi, ki tudi potem, ko spremenijo svoj jezik, ohranijo staro družbeno organizacijo. To velja za Avstrijce, ki so po izvoru Karantanci. Vsi smo mislili, da je na Koroškem prišlo do velike naselitve z Bavarske. In tudi sami avstronemški nacionalisti so tako trdili. V resnici so le nemško govoreci Karantanci. Nemški jezik se je širil spontano, germanizacija se je zacela šele z 19. stoletjem. Od tedaj smo zaceli izgubljati Koroško.

Kako razlagate, da ima gršcina veliko besed, ki so sku pne s slovenšcino?

To gre pripisati dejstvu, da so Pelazgi, praprebivalci Grcije, bili v jezikovnem smislu »naši predniki«. Srecamo pa toliko slovenskih imen po Švici in Tirolskem in še drugod. Sedaj sem na internetu (www.carantha.net - Julijske Alpe in njihova imena) prikazal eno serijo takšnih imen. Imena je moralo zapustiti neko ljudstvo, ki je govorilo tudi takšen jezik, saj jih je obcutno prevec, da bi lahko rekli, da gre za nekaj sporadicnega, nakljucnega. Imena so ostala. Ljudstvo je sicer prevzelo postopoma nemšcino ali italijanšcino, ostala pa je tudi etnologija: njegove navade, melodika, pesmi.

Potemtakem lahko interdisciplinarni pristop še ugotovi identiteto nekega naroda tudi po tem, ko je to že izgubil svoj jezik, zakaj narod s svojo kulturo in identiteto živi naprej. In to narod niso Kelti, temvec naši skupni predniki Veneti, Vendi. Ti so se naselili v Srednji Evropi, ki jo je po letu 1200 pred našim štetjem preplavil naselitveni tok iz lužiške kulture, kjer je bilo njeno središce in kjer so bila tudi žarna grobišca. Vendar pa prostor, ki so ga zasedli, ni bil prazen. Veneti so pripojili prejšnje prebivalstvo. S kulturnega vidika se zdi, da je bil jezik starih prebivalcev venetskemu zelo podoben. Zakaj korenina našega alpsko slovanskega jezika sega dalec nazaj, vse do nekega prajezika.

Naselitev je plod južnoslovanske ideologje.

Vi ste prvi razgrnili tancico skrivnostnosti, ki je zakrivala Etrušcane, da o Venetih, ki so bili še manj znani, niti ne govorimo. Kako razlikujete Etrušcane in Venete?

Ne, o Etrušcanih kot »Slovanih« je prvi pisal pokojni Anton Berlot. On in kolega Ivan Rebec sta izdala o tem tudi knjigo. Razrešitve napisov v venetici se je na slovanski osnovi lotil Matej Bor. Sam sem odkril Venete, ne kot prebivalce današnje Benecije (Veneto), temvec kot nosilce kulture žarnih grobišc. Žarnodobne selitve so zajele tudi Apeninskipolotok. V srednji Italiji so se izoblikovali potem Etrušcani, v severni Veneti v ožjem pomenu. Jezik obeh ljudstev je bil venetski, pri Etrušcanih pa je bila kultura dokaj drugacna. Villanovska kultura, pri Bologni, je bila sprva venetska, kasneje jo je nekako prežela etrušcanska.

V luci vašega odkritja o povezanosti besed Vindija in Indija smo se Slovenci lahko prvic zavedli svojih pravih korenin. Venete ste odkrili tudi v Indiji, vse skupaj pa ste povezali z nosilci žarne kulture, ki je uvedla žarni pokop. Zdaj šele razumem, zakaj se vselej, ko pridem v Indijo, pocutim, kot bi se vrnil domov.

V arheoloških spisih navajajo, da so nosilci žarne kulture, o katerih zdaj vemo, da so to bili Veneti in naši predniki, prišli do Perzije. Vprašal sem se: Zakaj samo do Perzije? Mehiški antropolog Pere Bosch - Gimpera opisuje v svoji knjigi Les Indo-Eoropéens (Pariz 1961) takratne arijske selitve. Na strani 223 sem našel tudi poglavje o selitvah v 12. stoletju pred našim štetjem. To je bil tisti cas, ko je padla Troja, za katero se zdi, da je bila venetska. Vsekakor pa so ji med grškim obleganjem prišli na pomoc tudi Veneti iz Paflagonije. Po padcu Troje so nekateri Veneti odšli na sever, v Evropo. Drugi pa naokoli po Mali Aziji in nato cez severno Asirijo. V zapisih Asircev so navedeni kot »muški«, kar je skoraj slovensko. Na vzhodu Perzije, v poznejši pokrajini Ekbatani, so ustanovili svojo kneževino. Omenjeni arheolog jih navede z imenom Hindous (Hindi).

Kakšni so vaši sedanji delovni pisateljski nacrti?

Pred nedavnim je izšla moja nova knjiga Zlati cvet, o slovenskem karantanskem bajeslovju. V njej predstavljam naše najstarejše ljudsko izrocilo. Zdaj pripravljam knjigo o naših poganskih bogovih. Nanje naletimo že pri naših prednikih Noricanih, kjer so med drugim zabeležena tudi obpotna božanstva, cuvarji poti, po latinsko Quadrubie, ki so stala na križišcih. Mogoce je bil naziv takšnega varuha poti Trojan?

Letter from our reader on Bosnian Pyramid

Spoštovani!

Že dalj casa po casopisih videvam t.i. "Bosanske piramide", npr. http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_Files/News.html zato me je zanimalo, ce je kateri od zagovornikov "Venetske teorije" mogoce že šel tja pogledati tiste njihove "rune".

Lep pozdrav,

Valter

Carantha: Kaj bi venetologi imeli lahko z Bosno, nam ni znano. Na Caranthi pa smo do “odkritij” v tej deželi zelo nezaupljivi. Tudi do najnovejše senzacije s piramidami. Naj naštejemo še druge: moška voda že pred desetletij, zdravilo za raka v Sarajevu, odkritje Troje pri izlivu Neretve, pa prikazovanja v Medjugorju in mogoce še kaj. Vse je, kot se zdi, prirejeno s strani stare udbe. Na zacetku 80. let, kot se nekateri spominjajo, je dnevnik Delo (na njen ukaz) prinašal v nadaljevanju senzacijo o Troji na Neretvi, za kar so posebej najeli nekega mehiškega arheologa. Za Medjugorje je sedaj Vatikan koncno dal navodilo, da se zadeva preiskuje. Marijina “prikazovanja” trajajo namrec že 27 let in bilo bi jih že nad 40.000. Turisticne agencije s to božjo potjo dobro služijo, zlasti v casu mrtve sezone. - V predzgodovini pripada Bosna kulturi Ilirov. Kot ugotavlja Matej Bor, so Veneti dospeli v (srednjo) Dalmacijo, Bosna je ostala ilirska. Vprašanje njene predzgodovine ni zadeva venetologov, temvec ilirologov.

In Reply to Millo Bozzolan

Venice, July 2, 2009

In a letter published in this paper on July 2nd, Mr. Millo Bozzolan comments on the book “I Veneti, progenitori dell’uomo europeo” (1991) written by Jožko Šavli, Matej Bor and Ivan Tomažic. Among other things, he mentions the inscription Osti jarej. The situla, which bears this particular inscription, was found in Škocjan on Karst in the surroundings of Trieste. He agrees with Matej Bor, that the inscription means »Stay young« respectively »sound«.

Anyway, in the commentaries section, some readers rejected his opinion, because they cannot imagine that the »Slavs« should have settled in the Central Alps, this is, in the district of Belluno, north of Venice. Thus, in this territory appear some Slovenian (Slav) names.

I would like to point out, that Bozzolan's appellation »protoslavo« (proto-Slav), being the language the ancient Veneti spoke, could be misleading. The appellation »Old Venetic« is very probably more accurate.

The ideological explanation, that in 568 the ancient Slavs should have arrived from the territory behind the Carpathian Mountains, which is still today a part of history class at Italian schools, is evidently obsolete. However, the public is not ready yet for a new perception.

– Dr. Jožko Šavli

***

I Veneti antichi, gli sloveni e i bellunesi

by Millo Bozzolan

L’altro giorno riflettevo sulla maniera di salutarsi, in uso tra i Bellunesi. Si scambiano un”Sani” che interpreto come “Restiamo sani, in salute”.

Ebbene la stessa espressione era in uso tra i Veneti antichi, se vogliamo prestar fede a una particolare traduzione che compare nel volume “I Veneti, progenitori dell’uomo europeo” scritto da Jozko Savli, Matej Bor (accademico sloveno) e Ivan Tomazic, a proposito di una iscrizione incisa su una situla rinvenuta sul Carso: compare infatti osti jarej , assolutamente simile alle parole ostani jar che in sloveno significa appunto resta giovane, sano.

La correlazione tra le due brevi frasi, venetica e slovena è assolutamente non equivoca, e se poi la aggiungiamo ad altre traduzioni ottenute tramite lo sloveno (prendendo sia lo sloveno moderno, che sue le forme dialettali, e antiche) non vi è, almeno per me, alcun dubbio che i nostri antenati parlavano un protoslavo. Del resto anche il celebre glottologo Giacomo Devoto e altri studiosi dell’Italia preromana fanno provenire i Veneti antichi da un’area situata nell’Est dell’Europa.

Mi piace quindi pensare che i miei concittadini bellunesi abbiano conservato, a distanza di molti secoli, un modo di salutare che era un’espressione usata anche dai nostri antenati. Del resto, molti toponimi del luogo si spiegano in questa maniera. Il più eclatante è Vas, borgo sulle rive del Piave, che in sloveno significa proprio “villaggio”.

Purtroppo gli accademici italiani che per primi tentarono invano, a differenza dei tre sloveni di cui ho citato il lavoro, di tradurre le duecento frasi venetiche pervenute, erano specialisti in lingue romanze, mentre uno studioso di lingue slave avrebbe avuto la strada spianata. Ma anche di fronte a evidenze come queste, si continua a sostenere che il venetico si è formato autonomamente, come la civiltà veneta, spuntata praticamente dal nulla, al di là dei vari reperti (linguistici e materiali) che ne assegnano un percorso ben diverso e molto più vasto.

Cito a questo punto la biografia di San Colombano scritta nel 615 d.c. in cui per descrivere le popolazioni Slave dell’areale occupato oggi dalla Slovenia, si usa il termine Veneti: “termini Venetorum, qui et Sclavi dicuntur”, cioè Veneti che si chiamano anche Slavi.

Situla of Vace (Slovenia) and Prof. Štih, a historian at the University of Lublana (Slovenia).

Although he is not a linguist, he acted as the official opponent of the Venetic theory.

Society for Slovene Studies (SSS) affiliated with the American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies (AAASS)

Reader's echo regarding the Annual Meeting 2000 in Denver (USA)

Late - But not too late!

The Veneti Theory Resists

and so does Carantania!

by Dr. Jožko Šavli

May 27, 2009

It is about THE 2000 ANNUAL MEETING of the Society for Slovene Studies (SSS) held in conjunction with the 32nd National Convention of the American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies (AAASS), 9 - 12 November 2000, at the Adams-Mark Hotel in Denver, Colorado.

Among the SSS panels and those of related interest, one particular group of papers entitled Constructing the Myth About the Origin of the Slovenes attracted my attention. The papers were sponsored by the following members of the Society for Slovene Studies: - Tom M. S. Priestly, University of Alberta (Canada) "The Veneti Theory" - Peter Štih, University of Lublana (Slovenia) "The Autochthonal Theories Among the Slovenes" - Peter Vodopivec, University of Lublana (Slovenia) "Croat, Serb, and Romanian Myths About National Origin" - Chair: Henry R. Cooper, Jr., Indiana University, Bloomington. Discussants: Cathie Carmichael, Middlesex University (UK) & Marko Štuhec, University of Lublana (Slovenia).

OSTI JAREJ (Stay Young)

Copies of some of the papers were sent to me by Joseph Škulj, P. Eng. († 2008), but at that time I was too busy with my research and could not write my comments immediately. Except, the polemics concerning a paper by Prof. Tom M. S. Priestly (University of Alberta), who tried to deny the existence of the ancient Veneti (Vends) from the linguistic point of view, had already turned me off. Besides myself and Eng. Škulj from Toronto - and if I remember correctly - also Prof. Mavretic from Boston, were the only ones who protested.

Moreover, Prof. Charles Bryant-Abraham, a linguist, rejected in a scientific way the critical interpretations of Prof. Priestly. His papers, entitled Refinements and Future Directions in Venetic Scholarship, were published in Journal of Ancient & Medieval Studies (XVIII) by the Octavian Society (Calif.). Prof. Priestly correctly took note of the protests.

Here, I cite an example, which Prof. Bryant-Abraham quoted in his response to Prof. Priestly's criticism on the decipherment of Venetic inscriptions, carried out by Matej Bor, the Slovenian linguist:

The Octavian Society

:... Therefore, what we are confronting is the imminent emergence of Venetic dialectology. Indeed, Slovenian must henceforth take its place as the only surviving dialect of Venetic, and a most conservative one at that, for only sporadically did its regional variation undergo coalescence of the three phonemes at issue into /h/.

Prof. Priestly further expands the emergent dialectology of Venetic in two other cases: 1) »It is unclear what the Ven. Word for 'fire' was. Cf. On the one hand; 'v han' - into the fire... and on the other 'v ougon' - into the fire«, and 2) »...'betatism'... Bor... has two graphemes labeled 'B, V' on his alphabet table... and whenever one occurs, he is more or less at liberty to interpret it as he pleases...this approach shows an annoying lack of consistency ...«

I must point out that these differences are highly indicative of dialectical variation over the vast Venetic territory and that given these differences, it will be incumbent upon future Venetologists to elaborate the dialectal contours broad isoglosses of Venetic as attested in the inscriptions (p. 86).

And again: In Canada, Mr. Anthony Ambrozic published his works Adieu to Brittany (Toronto 1999), Journey Back to the Garumna (Toronto 2000) and Gordian Knot Unbound (Toronto 2002). In these studies, the author deciphered the Venetic and other inscriptions in Venetic script on the basis of Slovenian and Slav languages. His works, because the author shows evidence which cannot be rejected, simply have been ignored by professors at the University of Lublana. Not very correct, is it?

In the selection of papers presented at the meeting, I did not pay attention to that of Prof. Vodopivec (University of Lublana), which dealt with Croat, Serb, and Romanian Myths About National Origin. The topic was clearly outside the frame of contents. It evidently was used as an illustration to target Slovenians and the Venetic theory concerning their autochthonism. Look here, similar »myths« appears elsewhere too. Anyway, Prof. Vodopivec, a historian of the Lublana University, failed to present reliable evidence to substantiate his argumentation.

Glas Korotana (Korotan Voice) Nr. 10, published by Father Ivan Tomažic, Vienna 1985. The summary of my discoveries concerning the Veneti shocked the then Slovenia and Yugoslavia.

Evidently, he insists on the pan-Slav and Yugoslav thesis, in sense of which, in the 6th century a migration wave of »Slavs«

came from the hypothetical ancient homeland behind the Carpathian Mountains to the Balkans, and a part of this migration group should have settled the Eastern Alps in 568 AD. They should have been the »predecessors« of modern Slovenians.

Regretfully, such a thesis is lacking proof. It served as a political basis for the Yugoslav ideology only, officially promoted by the Belgrade regime. Its suggestion was as follows: The Balkan Slavs, predecessors of Yugoslavs, already formed a nation and the restoration of the Yugoslav nation would have been a revival of the historical origins.

Concerning Slovenians, Prof. Peter Štih (University of Lublana) presented a similar paper, in which he displayed the autochthon theories among the Slovenes. It is an interesting review, in which the authors are considering the Slavs as an autochthon people of Middle Europe. Anyway, they built their theory of cognition on the linguistic basis only, on which they suppose the existence of the one-time common forefathers of Slavs.

In fact, an interdisciplinary approach was not possible until the second part of the 20th century. Thus, disciplines like archaeology, sociology, law, ethnology, topography, research of superficies names etc. were not yet developed.

The English edition of the book about the Veneti (Vends) of 1996, which extended the question of the origin of the »Slavs« worldwide.

In his paper, Prof. Štih avoided the mentioning of my study called Veneti, naši davni predniki (Veneti, our remote ancestors), which was published in Glas Korotana (Vienna 1985), edited by Father Ivan Tomažic. Even this study provoked an ideological shake-up in the then Slovenia and Yugoslavia. It was particularly noticeable after Matej Bor, the well-known Slovenian poet, romancier and linguist, joined my discoveries and deciphered major Venetic inscriptions of Este on base of Slovenian and Slav languages.

Then, the new discoveries about the Veneti were published in book form, and each volume of the series in different language editions: in German (1988), Slovenian (1989), Italian (1991) and English (1996). Since then, the academic circles, financed by political regimes, will not give peace to the so-called Venetologists. One of the most zealous opponent to the Veneti theory, and against me, has been exactly this Prof. Peter Štih.

In a number of articles, published in the Slovenian press, Prof. Štih rejected the Venetic theory. His actions give the impression, that because of the ideological question, the ex-Yugoslav lobby in Slovenia has entrusted him with this task. He published several articles, all covering the same issue. However, I did not reply to any of them, because my articles would not have been published.

What tactics are used in these articles, which were adopted not only by Prof. Štih, one can see in the device "Venetic theory" published in Wikipedia. I am quoting the following sentence:.. The second argument, on which the theory is based, are supposed Slavic (proto-Slovene) toponyms found throughout Central Europe and Northern Italy - these toponyms have been studied by Jožko Šavli, but his discoveries have been rejected by linguists and historians alike.

This statement is highly misleading to the reader. First of all, linguists are not experts on toponymics, and historians are even less appreciative of theory. Second, why did the author of this device not demonstrate some examples of supposedly false interpretations of names? I quote only some examples from the area of Lago Maggiore (in Lombardy): Pallanza (poljanca, a little field), Mt. Gradisca (gradišce, a sconce), Ronco (ronek, a gentle slope)...

Statuette of the Venetic goddess Reitia, found in Este (Italy).

The entry in Wikipedia continues: ... The third argument is based on the ancient Venetic inscriptions found in Northeastern Italy and in the Slovenian Littoral, which Matej Bor interpreted as being Slavic. Bor's interpretations have also been completely rejected by scholars.

And once again, the unfair tactics used by the author are unsubstantiated. Which scholars? Maybe, Bogo Grafenauer and Peter Štih

talk about themselves, because they are historians and not linguists. At that point, I also challenge the linguist Prof. Rado Lencek (Columbia University, † 2005), who wrote an essay called The Linguistic Premises of Matej Bor's Slovene-Venetic Theory", Slovene Studies 12, no. 1 (1990, 75-86). Regretfully, neither here do we find even one example to the theoretical work, only citations based on the scientific (or ideological) authority entitled: University of...

Ideological engagements

It is about the same tactics adopted by lecturers at the University of Lublana, and piloted by the ex-Yugoslav lobby, which controls present-day Slovenia. They evidently follow orders to profess their declarations in sense of the ancient Yugoslav ideology. Isn't it so?

A further question to consider is Prof. Štih's constant attack and incorrect assumptions on my discoveries about Carantania, the early Slovenian State of the Middle Ages. I am under the impression, that his point of view is dictated by the ex-Yugoslav lobby. I cite the quotation concerning the Black Panther, the coat of arms of Carantania, from the Wikipedia Symbolism:

Flag of Carantania, reconstructed on base of seals with the Black Panther. Today, the Panther is preserved in different colours in the coat of arms of Styria, the original Carantanian March.

... Šavli's reconstruction soon gained some popularity among younger generations of Slovenian patriots and nationalists. In the last two decades, it has become one of the most recognizable symbols of Slovenian patriotism. It is also used by several nationalistic groups.

Several academic historians, such as Peter Štih, have disputed the hypothesis that the black panther was the symbol of Carolingian and Ottonian Duchy of Carinthia. According to their views, all mentions which would suggest such a conclusion are vague. Furthermore, there is no direct evidence of the symbol dating to the time of the Slavic principality of Carantania. Nevertheless, the ties of the black panther symbol with the territory of the early Ottonian Carinthia seem to be beyond doubt.

Firstly, it is not my reconstruction of the Black Panther, because its image is based on the signet of 1160, which pertained to margrave Ottokar III of the Carantanian March, the later duchy of Styria. I checked the sources and found that at that time the lands of Carantania, respectively the marches, were not yet separated from the mother duchy. Therefore, the Black Panther must be regarded as the coat of arms of Carantania.

Secondly, the coat of arms did not yet appear in the Carolingian and Ottonian period. The armorial period begins after 1150 AD. It is clear, that Prof. Štih is not a heraldist and that he does not understand the heraldic field. Strangely enough, I never found a sole article on this subject written by him. But it is a very bold enterprise, if he makes authoritative judgments outside of his professional field. I think, they are not spontaneous, but rather suggested by the aforesaid ex-Yugoslav lobby itself.

The Arms of the Royal and Imperial Heraldic Society »Adler« in Vienna, founded in 1870.

Apart from this, the publishing of my research concerning the Black Panther, the coat of arms of Carantania (Glas Korotana, Vienna 1981), stirred up so much interest not only in Slovenian papers abroad, but also in the Heraldic Society »Adler« Vienna. Its then chairman, Prof. Hanns Jäger-Sunstenau, published in the well-known heraldic paper Archivum Heraldicum (Lausanne 1982, No. 3-4) the article entitled: Heraldische Symbole im alten Slowenisch-Karantanien (Heraldic symbols in the ancient Slovenian-Carantania). A brief recension of the material was also published by Europa Ethnica, Vienna 1982/3). Now, a non-heraldist from the University of Lublana disputes the »hypothesis« concerning the Black Panther as the coat of arms of Carantania.

My final conclusion: Academics enjoy outstanding support from institutions like universities and others, which are financed by government structures. Therefore, they must redistribute the knowledge of their discoveries in sense of the official ideology. On the other hand, Venetologists and Carantanianists are not financed. They enjoy the freedom in their research and the freedom to publish their findings. Very simple, isn't it?

An Ideological Scientific Play

Veselia Felicetas

Croatians in the Role of a Scape-goat

Zeljko Nincevic

On the isle of Brac (pron. Bratch, Brattia in Latin, Brazza in Italian), in Dalmatia, in the period between WW1 and WW2 a Latin inscription was found engraved in stone, which spells the words Veselia Felicetas Liber m(agno) patri Torclesi ex voto (CIL, III 3093). Today, the stone with the inscription is kept in the museum in Split. Regretfully, the item is not on exhibition to the public. The inscription Veselia Felicetas with its bilingual meaning drew the attention of many scholars. The then well-known Belgrade linguist, M. Budimir (1934), explained that the words are a Latin translation of the Illyrian name Veselia (joy).

At that time, the Illyrian language was considered to be very similar to the supposed Southern Slav languages. M. Budimir established that the inscription originated in the Roman period. Nevertheless, the Slavs should have settled the Balkans as early as in the 6th century AD. Therefore the aforesaid bilingual name was characterized and, in general, it remained valid as an Illyrian - Latin expression.

The aforesaid bilingual inscription has been mentioned also by the well-known venetologist Aldo Luigi Prosdocimi. Compare: I veneti antichi, lingua e cultura (Padova 1988, p. 399). But he, in its interpretatio, only adduces the explanation of Krahe (1955), that the name Veselia means "gesund, heil" (healthy, well, in Lettish!), like "vesel'" (happy, cheerful, in old Bulgarian, i.e., old-Church Slav).

Prof. Prosdocimi takes a similar standpoint, when he quotes another bilingual Roman inscription, found in Sopron (Scarbantia in Roman times), in ancient Pannonia, today's Hungary. It spells P. Domitius P. f. Tergitio negotiator h. s. e. (CIL, III 4251). Here, he explains the bilingual appellate Tergitio negotiator by quoting Lejeune (1952), who puts "tergitio" in connection with "trg", and translates the supposedly Illyrian appellate as "marchè" (merchant).

In the above-mentioned book, Prof. Prosdocimi adduces these inscriptions in the capital of pre-Roman place names (5.3. Toponomi. I nomi di luogo di origine preromana). Why? His book, it is true, is dedicated to the ancient Veneti, who, from the linguistic standpoint, he considers a group of Italics, the ancestors of the Latins. Thus, after his own criteria this inscription does not pertain to the contents of his book (?).

It seems that in the given explanation of the bilingual inscriptions the scholars intentionally avoided a comparison with the Slav languages spoken in the area of their discovery, i.e., the Croatian and the Slovenian language. In the Croatian language and its ikavic-dialect of Dalmatia the etymon Veselia still today appears in the form of veselje (pron. veselye). In Pannonia, Slovenian was spoken until the Hungarian settlement in the 10th century AD. In this language, the etymon Tergitio today spells trgovec (pron. t'rgovets). In the present day province of Pannonia, the Slovenian language remained preserved only in the south-western part, which mostly pertains to modern Slovenia.

In my mind, the bilingual meaning in the Roman inscriptions from Dalmatia and Pannonia present proof, that during the Roman period the natives of these provinces still spoke their proper language, which was close to Slav languages. In spite of the fact, that the inscriptions have been attributed to the ancient Illyrians, they bore witness of the autochthonism of the people living there, i.e., the autochthonism of the Croatians (Dalmatians) and the Slovenians (Pannonians).

In the 80s, the Slovenian linguist Matej Bor, together with Dr. Šavli, were the co-founders of the modern theory, in the sense of which the ancient Veneti (not the Celts) were the ancestors of the Central European nations. In the sense of their research, the ancient Veneti spoke a language close to the modern Slovenian and Slav languages. Matej Bor considered the aforesaid Roman inscriptions with its bilingual parts as one of the most important proofs for the exactness of the Venetic theory.

The regime's intervention

The non-Latin etymons Veselia and Tergitio, although attributed to the Illyrians, still represent a challenge, which could inspire linguists and other scholars to explain history in a different way as officially carried out by the academic world. This world was under the control of the regimes, who financed it.

So, after the WW2, also the Belgrade Communist regime based the justifiability of the existence of Yugoslavia (which was intended to be great-Serbia) on the historical supposition, that all nations of this State (Croatians, Slovenians, Serbians…) descended from the Southern Slavs. As we know, these people should have been a part of the anciet Slavs, who at one-time lived in their ancient homeland behind the Carpathian Mountains. Then, as early as in the 5th/6th century AD a wave of Slavs, exactly said, the Southern Slavs, should have settled the Balkans, and the common belief is that their migration took them also to the Eastern Alps.

Such an explanation of the historical facts was the ideology, on which the Belgrade regime not only based the national unity of Yugoslavia but also its centralistic and hegemonostic policy, in order to create a Yugoslav nation (great Serbia) with a unique (Serbian) language.

In connection with the centralistic Yugoslav ideology, the two bilingual words in the Roman inscription, although supposedly of »Illyrian« origin, represented a constant temptation. They were true evidence that stood for the autochthonism of the Slovenians and Croatians. For example, after some years the Slovenian linguist and writer Matej Bor employed them as one of the proofs that Slovenians have been an autochthon people (Venetic theory). This took place, it is true, long after the theory of the Belgrade regime took steps in its own direction.

In the sense of its old tactics, the regime made an effort to have the meaning of the bilingual inscriptions confuted by a well-known scholar, other than a Serbian. The political powers tended to divert people's mind; they should not be under the impression that it was all about Yugoslav, respectively great-Serbian nationalism. The directives of Belgrade's regime were very clearly evident. The scholar in question had to be of Croatian origin, who would be armed and equipped to combat the thesis of the bilingual Roman inscription found on Croatian territory. This approach would confirm the credibility of his paper.

Such thoughts entered my mind, when I read Prof. Radoslav Katicic's paper entitled Veselia Felicetas, published in German language in Heidelberg back in 1961. I have no doubt, that Prof. Katicic showed great scientific ability in his paper, but he did not prove what he was supposed to do: to confute perhaps the "Illyrian" character of the bilingual names in the aforesaid Roman inscription found on the isle of Brac (Brattia). He only took into consideration that the name Veselia was a form of the Roman name Visellius, Visselia… He overlooked the fact that the bilingual name was found in Pannonia, too.

Prof. Katicic, the well-known linguist, was awarded a place at the University of Vienna (Austria). This very probably was due to the fact, that he bent backwards to Belgrade's directives. Thus, the Belgrade regime has been linked with the international masonry, like the leadership of the Socialist Party, which ruled Austria. There, in my opinion, he continued to carry out the directives of Belgrade, which, among other things, also concerned the Slovenian language at the Vienna University.

I came to this conviction, when a Slovenian friend sent an article to me, which was recently published in the daily Delo of Ljubljana (October 11, 2004). The article contains an interview with Prof. Kronstainer, a well-known linguist (University of Salzburg), who literally said: …Prof. Radoslav Katicic, who will appear at the Cobiss meeting in November in Maribor… was for 20 years a grave-digger of Slovenistics at the University of Vienna. He prevented each systematization, which would have been urgently needed…

I am afraid, the conspiracy of Belgrade and the Austrian Socialist regime towards the existence of the Slovenian language and culture, was much more fateful, I suppose, as it was towards the Croatians. It is very possible, that such a conspiracy is still in force. In this way, perhaps in Austria, through Prof. Katicic once again the »Croats« have been presented as a scape-goat for unfairness toward the Slovenians, which in fact was committed by Belgrade and its allies. - Judging by their deeds you will get to know them!…

Bibliography:

	•	Giulia Fogolari - Aldo Luigi Prosdocimi: I Veneti antichi. Lingua e cultura, Padova 1988, p. 399

	•	Radoslav Katicic: Veselia Felicetas, in: Beitraege zur Namensforschung, Band 12, Heidelberg 1961, p. 271 ff.

	cf: Echo, letter: Veselia Felicetas... a critical view

Trg" (market)

May 30, 2006

Hello, I found this article Veselia Felicetas in and the letter VESELIA FELICETAS...., a critical view in Echo more than interesting and directly related to the Sarmatian (Baltic) nation:

"But the Romanization did not mean an immediate loss of the native Venetic language. In the countryside, the Venetic language remained preserved for a very long time indeed. The town folk evidently spoke two languages. Proof of this are the inscriptions in Roman (CIL IX, 6086; XXX, 8) and in Venetic (Od 5) script, which were engraved on the projectiles by various Venetic soldiers serving in the Roman army. They originated from Oderzo, what in Venetic language would mean Oterg or Optergn, later Opitergium, in Latin. The basic word of this name is "trg" (market), which still exists today in Slovenian (neo-Venetic) language. In other countries we find many double inscriptions, meaning, besides the Latin denomination appears also the Venetic one: P. Domitius P. (f.) Tergitio negotiator (CIL, III, 1251), from Scarbantia in Pannonia, and Veselia Felicetas (CIL, III, 3093), from Brac in Dalmatia. In today's Slovenian still exists the word veselje (delight), whereas "tergitio" took on already the form of trgovec (merchant). These examples stimulated Matej Bor, a Slovenian linguist, to decipher Venetic inscriptions based on Slovenian language and its dialects."

Marketplace Lithuanians are calling - 'Turgus'. It's driven from the Baltic/Sarmatian word "Turt'as" which means 'staff, capital, wealth, assets, worth, cash etc.' So, to solve the mystery from where the Vends came, you have to visit theSarmatian/Baltic lands... .

Kind regards,

Aivaras C. from www.Lietuvos.net

http://www.lietuvos.net/

VESELIA FELICETAS...., a critical view

In regards to the article of Mr. Zeljko Nincevic concerning the Roman inscription CIL III 3093 - 10100 (Veselia Felicetas), found on Brazza island (Brac) in Dalmatia (Croatia), I hereby acknowledge that I am in agreement with the author's opinion. In fact, which hypothesis could better explain the »mystery« of the Illyrian language as Hans Krahe did in his work »Die Sprache der Illyrer« (1955). Besides, this could also serve as proof, that the ancient inhabitants of Brazza island in Dalmatia used a language, respectively a dialect very close to that of the Liburnians, Japodians, Istrians, and Pannonians, which has to be taken into consideration - at least from the linguistic point of view - the relatives of the ancient Veneti. Such was also the opinion of Geza Alföldi (cf. Bevölkerung… , 1965) and several other authors.

Felicetas in the above-mentioned inscription can be, in my opinion, only a strict translation of the name Veselia. Still today this word is used as a first name in the people's language of Croatia (especially in Dalmatia, Istria and Slavonia) and in the entire Slovenia. In the native tongue of these countries, the expression "veselje" (pron. veselye) means joy, or luck. Not only is Vesela and Veselin still today a well known first name in those regions, but also family names like Veselic, Veselinovic derived from it.

In this connection, I consider totally contradictory and superficial the corresponding explanation given by Prof. Aldo Prosdocimi (cf. I Veneti antichi, 1988, p. 399). As to clear the Veselia Felicetas meaning, he cites H. Krahe, who compares Veselia with the Latvian vesels "gesund, heil" (meaning healthy) and the Old Bulgarian (i.e., Old Church Slav) vesel' "froh, vergnügt" (meaning happy, cheerful). Of the same opinion is Julius Pokorny, who explains Veselia with "gesund" (healthy) (cf. Indogermanisches Wörterbuch, 1959). - But the words "gesund, heil" (healthy) don't mean vesel (cheerful), from which Veselia derives, and which is still in use in the local mother tongue.

Neither H. Krahe nor A. L. Prosdocimi or J. Pokorny took into consideration the local languages, i.e., the Croatian (Dalmatia), that is found in the territory, where the aforesaid inscription appeared (the village Skrip on the isle of Brazza - Brac). So, I'm asking myself, why a glottologist and historian like Aldo Luigi Prosdocimi from the University of Padova, instead of copying Krahe's quotations, did not take into consideration the Croatian vocabulary? In my opinion, CIL III 3093 will be very helpful in solving many contradictory hypothesis concerning the mystery of the Illyrian language.

I believe, that CIL III 3093 - 10100 is a clear proof, that the people of Dalmatia are still speaking the same language as their ancestors did at least two thousand years ago. Such is also the opinion of Dr. Ivan Muzic, as quoted in his interesting work (cf. Autoctonia… 1994, p. 33, 36). Furthermore, I am wondering, why did the Acad. Prof. Radoslav Katicic, in contrast to Milan Budimir (1934), avoid his own native Croatian language, when he tried to explain Veselia Felicetas (cf. Beiträge... 1961). And again, why Prof. A. Stipcevic, the author of the important work "Gli Illiri" (1966), did not express up front any concrete opinions concerning the Illyrian language? However, in the Croatian edition of his work (1974) the same author says, that Veselia Felicetas could be explained by the Slav word veselje (joy). But in the last edition of his work (1991, p. 193) he affirms, that the Illyrian language has been preserved in the modern Albanian, what stands in contrast to his previous standpoint.

cf: article Veselia Felicetas

F. Lurenzin, Switzerland

Some Bibliography:

	•	Radoslav Katicic: Veselia Felicetas, in: Beiträge zur Namenforschung, Band 12, Heidelberg 1961, pp. 271 - 279

	•	Hans Krahe: Die Sprache der Illyrer, Wiesbaden 1955

	•	Mayer A.: Die Sprache der alten Illyrer II, Wien 1959, 124 ff.

	•	Julius Pokorny: Indogermanisches etymologisches Wörterbuch, Bern - München 1959

	•	J. N. Kalleris: Les ancient Macedoniens I, Athens 1954. p. 186 ff.

	•	Geza Alföldi: Bevölkerung und Gesellschaft der römischen Provinz Dalmatien, Budapest 1965)

	•	John Wilkes: Gli Illiri tra identità ed integrazione, 1998, p. 75 - 93

	•	Ivan Muzic: Autoctonia e prereligione sul suolo della provincia romana di Dalmazia, Roma 1994


	•	Milan Budimir: Revue internazionale des etudes balcaniques I (1934), p. 284


	REITIA Dea dei Veneti


	(in Italian language)


	You can buy it online at this website:


	http://www.raixevenete.com/ecomm/product.asp?pid=596

Udine, 29 aprile 2007

We publish the Italian original review of this interesting work on Reitia, the goddess of the Veneti, as she was called in Retia and Venetia. It is about the very ancient Earth Goddess, who was known as Noreia in Noricum, Histria in Istria, Zemla (Earth) in origin, Zemele among the Thracians. She has also been described in our column Zemla. We congratulate Dr. Piero Favero on his work, which is a precious contribution to the history and culture of the ancient Veneti.

By courtesy of our reader Richard Jamsek, who forwarded the article to Carantha.

Ancient ashes found buried in Rome (United Press International)

The United Press International (Feb. 8/06) reported, that a team of archaeologists, while excavating the floor of the Forum in Rome, found ashes of an ancient chief or priest who lived three centuries before the legendary founding this city. The archeologists previously found two graves in the same site. They were small, less than a meter (ca. 40 inches) deep.

The newly found pit is six feet deep and four feet wide. Officials said the prehistoric tribes probably placed the ashes of the low-ranking dead in surface buildings and buried only ashes of the notables.

The remains, dating to about 1,000 BC, were discovered last month in a funerary urn at the bottom of a deep pit, along with several bowls and jars -- all encased in a hut-like box.

Carantha editor's observation:

It was the period of the Urnfield culture (after 1200 BC), which was spread by the migration of its bearers, the Veneti, who originated in the Lusatian culture. These migratory people settled also in the Apennine Peninsula and in Sicily. They buried the ashes of their defunct in urns. An important Venetic settlement was found on Palatine Hill in Rome, which rises above the Forum.

Vindhya parvata

(Windian Hills)

View on Vindhya parvata under the monsoon close to the city of "Mândû"

Dr. Jožko Šavli

Vindhya parvata (Windian Hills) is the name of the range of 460 - 1,500 m altitude, which geographically divides the Indian continent into the northern part called Hindustan, and into the southern part called Deccan. The name Vindhya is evidently connected with the Vends or Veneti, (the predecessors of Middle European nations). I have already written about this in my paper entitled "Veneti, naši davni predniki" (Veneti, Our Remote Ancestors, Vienna 1985). In my paper it was pointed out for the first time that in Europe, during the pre-Celtic period, a powerful race existed, which beyond doubt bore the name Vends, or Veneti, or Sloveneti. Until now, they were mostly called "bearers of the Urnfield culture".

As it is generally known, in about ca. 1200 BC major migration waves of Veneti from Lusatia (Eastern Germany) moved into all directions of Europe and perhaps also to the Middle East. The name Vindhya parvata is witness, that one of their migration currents also reached India. But when? The problem was solved already at the beginning of the 60s by Prof. Pere Bosch - Gimpera, a Catalonian archaeologist and Professor at the University of Mexico. In his book called "Les Indo-Européens" (Paris 1961), he described the Veneti on their road to India on base of archaeological finds. It was after the fall of Troy in 1184 BC, when a Vendic group went East through northern Persia and present-day Afghanistan until they reached Punjab in the Indus basin in ca. 1150 BC. But Prof. Bosch - Gimpera was not aware of the Veneti, he called them Hindi and considered them the last migration wave of the Aryans.

At that time Aryans had already settled the Indus basin. Scholars consider that they arrived from Central Asia after ca. 1800 BC. Aryans and Veneti still spoke similar languages and evidently united into one people. After incursions to the East in ca. 1000 BC they were able to conquer the Ganges plains until the Himalaya range. A wave of Veneti migrated south of the dessert Tar and reached the above mentioned range, which since then has been called Vindhya parvata.

The question, why do such great similarities exist between Sanscrit and the Slovenian language, as displayed in particular by Eng. Joseph Skulj (Toronto), could be clarified in this way. The Slovenian language descends directly from the ancient Vendic. The same has to be considered for Lusatian and Pomeranian (Slovinzian). Regretfully, from this standpoint the academic world did not make the necessary researches. Thus, the question about the Veneti (Vends) completely confutes explanations of history and prehistory, as they have been presented until now.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A2nd%C3%BB" \o Mândû

Vindia

Found: Europe's oldest civilisation

11 June 2005

By courtesy of our reader, who forwarded the article to Carantha

Our question is: Did it pertain to the Vends?

Archaeologists have discovered Europe's oldest civilisation, a network of dozens of temples, 2,000 years older than Stonehenge and the Pyramids. More than 150 gigantic monuments have been located beneath the fields and cities of modern-day Germany, Austria and Slovakia. They were built 7,000 years ago, between 4800 BC and 4600 BC. Their discovery, revealed today by The Independent, will revolutionise the study of prehistoric Europe, where an appetite for monumental architecture was thought to have developed later than in Mesopotamia and Egypt.

In all, more than 150 temples have been identified. Constructed of earth and wood, they had ramparts and palisades that stretched for up to half a mile. They were built by a religious people who lived in communal longhouses up to 50 metres long, grouped around substantial villages. Evidence suggests.

Their civilisation seems to have died out after about 200 years and the recent archaeological discoveries are so new that the temple building culture does not even have a name yet. Excavations have been taking place over the past few years - and have triggered a re-evaluation of similar, though hitherto mostly undated, complexes identified from aerial photographs throughout central Europe.

Archaeologists are now beginning to suspect that hundreds of these very early monumental religious centres, each up to 150 metres across, were constructed across a 400-mile swath of land in what is now Austria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and eastern Germany. The most complex excavated so far - located inside the city of Dresden - consisted of an apparently sacred internal space surrounded by two palisades, three earthen banks and four ditches.

The monuments seem to be a phenomenon associated exclusively with a period of consolidation and growth that followed the initial establishment of farming cultures in the centre of the continent. It is possible that the newly revealed early Neolithic monument phenomenon was the consequence of an increase in the size of - and competition between - emerging Neolithic tribal or pan-tribal groups, arguably Europe's earliest mini-states.

After a relatively brief period - perhaps just one or two hundred years - either the need or the socio-political ability to build them disappeared, and monuments of this scale were not built again until the Middle Bronze Age, 3,000 years later. Why this monumental culture collapsed is a mystery.

The archaeological investigation into these vast Stone Age temples over the past three years has also revealed several other mysteries. First, each complex was only used for a few generations - perhaps 100 years maximum. Second, the central sacred area was nearly always the same size, about a third of a hectare. Third, each circular enclosure ditch - irrespective of diameter - involved the removal of the same volume of earth. In other words, the builders reduced the depth and/or width of each ditch in inverse proportion to its diameter, so as to always keep volume (and thus time spent) constant Archaeologists are speculating that this may have been in order to allow each earthwork to be dug by a set number of special status workers in a set number of days - perhaps to satisfy the ritual requirements of some sort of religious calendar. The multiple bank, ditch and palisade systems "protecting" the inner space seem not to have been built for defensive purposes - and were instead probably designed to prevent ordinary tribes people from seeing the sacred and presumably secret rituals which were performed in the "inner sanctum".

The investigation so far suggests that each religious complex was ritually decommissioned at the end of its life, with the ditches, each of which had been dug successively, being deliberately filled in. "Our excavations have revealed the degree of monumental vision and sophistication used by these early farming communities to create Europe's first truly large scale earthwork complexes," said the senior archaeologist, Harald Stäuble of the Saxony state government's heritage department, who has been directing the archaeological investigations. Scientific investigations into the recently excavated material are taking place in Dresden.

The people who built the huge circular temples were the descendants of migrants who arrived many centuries earlier from the Danube plain in what is now northern Serbia and Hungary. The temple-builders were pastoralists, controlling large herds of cattle, sheep and goats as well as pigs. They made tools of stone, bone and wood, and small ceramic statues of humans and animals. They manufactured substantial amounts of geometrically decorated pottery, and they lived in large longhouses in substantial villages.

One village complex and temple at Eythra, near Leipzig, covers an area of 25 hectares. Two hundred longhouses have been found there. The population would have been up to 300 people living in a highly organised settlement of 15 to 20 very large communal buildings. (Accentuations in colour by Carantha).


	A settlement of the Band Ceramic people. In the background we see part of a typical longhouse. (The illustration has been taken from the book: Frühe Geschichte der Lausitz by Lech Leciejewicz, 1985).

Remarks from Carantha editorial:

The question, which arises in connection with the discovery, is as follows: Who were the bearers of the newest discovered civilization with the centre in Lusatia, which does not have a name yet? Were they the Vends (Veneti)? The Vends were formed, it is true, in the Lusatian Culture (ca. 1500 - 1100 BC). Anyway, they descended from a substrate, that goes back into the period of the pre-Indo-European culture of Band Ceramics (ca. 4200 - ca. 2000 BC), which is considered the first agrarian culture in Europe.

The recently discovered civilization with the centre in Lusatia dates back to ca. 4800 - 4600 BC. It extended practically in the same territory as the later Lusatian Culture. Was the recently discovered culture a predecessor of the Band Ceramics? This is very probable. Further on it is said, that their economy was based on cattle, sheep, goat and pig farming. Here, the archaeological relations do not mention the agriculture, but it cannot be wholly excluded. In particular, because the introduction of agriculture in Europe from Mesopotamia is estimated to ca. after 6000 BC (cf. L. L. Cavalli - Sforza: Geni, popoli e lingue, 1996, 154).

Evidently, the later culture of Band Ceramics is to be considered a derivation from the great culture, which at present-day was discovered in Lusatia: communal longhouses, substantial villages… They were also characteristic for the Band Ceramics. The matriarchate, in which the Band Ceramists lived, has to be also assumed for the preceding period. It was characteristic for the pre-Indo-European period, in which the very similar cultures extended from North Africa across Europe to the Urals. We can call it the Afro-European period.

The incursions from the East in ca. 2000 BC brought the so-called "Indo-Europeanization" of Europe based on the Patriarchate, in which the people of the Band Ceramic culture survived as a substrate. After 1500 BC arose from this substrate the culture of Lusatia followed by the Urnfield culture (after 1200 BC), which formed the people, who entered history under the name of Vends or Veneti. After the discovery of a civilization preceding the Band Ceramics, the roots of the Vends demonstrate to be of a much older period. They remained preserved in Middle Europe as a country people until this very day. The only question is, in which period is one ready to call them Vends, this is, to call them by their real name?

(cf: T he Vends and the Germans)

Landesamt für Archäologie - Sachsen (http://www.archsax.sachsen.de/grabungen/)

http://www.archsax.sachsen.de/grabungen/biehla2.pdf

www.archsax.sachsen.de/grabungen/zwenk2.html

The Slovieni

A Venetic Stock in Russia

They were the founders of the Slovenia there,

which later was called »The Republic of Novgorod«

The discovery of common roots represents a new base of friendship between Russians and Slovenians

Dr. Jožko Šavli

Quite by chance I came across an interesting article entitled "Wie die Sloviene an den Ilmensee kamen" (How did the Slovieni reach Ilmen Lake), which was issued in the magazine "Welt der Slaven" (Munich 1985). The publisher is the well-known linguist and Slavist Heinrich Kunstmann, who strongly believes he can prove, that the Slovieni at Ilmen Lake (Russia) originated from the "Illyrian, Makedonian and Thracian". Indeed, Kunstmann's article is very instructive and reflects a great linguistic knowledge. But his argument is not convincing enough. What's the matter?

The well-known Russian chronicler Nestor mentions the appearance of the Slovieni race among the first Russian tribes in his "Povest' vremennych let" (11th/12th century AD). According to Nestor, they settled around the Ilmen Lake south of Sankt Petersburg, and founded the city of Novgorod. - It is certain, that the Slovieni of this area came from elsewhere. But Nestor does not state, where did they migrate from and when did this happen. Therefore, several scholars researched their primordial homeland, and they are still doing so.

The early settlement area of the Slovieni (Russia)

Some time ago, I myself tried to explore this question by adducing findings of fact from Tacitus (Germania, 46), who quotes, that the Veneti are making incursions across the territory of the Peucini (Balts) into the territory of the Fenni (Finns). Apart from Tacitus (56 BC - 117 AD) there are no other charters, from which we could conclude, that a migration wave of the Veneti really reached the area of Ilmen Lake, i.e., that of Novgorod (Russia). But several other evidences lead us to such a conclusion. The first one is the fact, that Nestor's Slovieni preserved their original Venetic name. Indeed, the Veneti called themselves Sloveneti, abbreviated Sloventi (Matej Bor). In the Alps developed from this name the form Slovenci (Carantania), at the Baltic coast that of Slovinci (Pomerania), and in the present-day Novgorod region that of Slovieni (Russia). - Cf. my article "The Vends and the Slavs".

The Venetic language was spread over several peoples, making them the present-day »Slavs«. However, only the original Venetic race, not because of their language, but because of their ethnological peculiarities, preserved the primordial Venetic name. It also seems to be preserved in the name of the Slovakians (the Slovakian woman is called Slovenka), as well as in that of the Swedes (svensk - Swedish is an abbreviation of »slovensk« - Slovenian). Indeed, the question of the Veneti - Sloventi is very ample, it deserves a particular research.

In this article I want to point out only the problem of two peoples, who preserved the Slovenetic name: one was found in the extreme north-east in Russia (Slovieni), the other one in the Alpine south-west region (Slovenci). A comparison of several peculiarities of both ethnical groups make it possible to infer their Venetic autochthonism.

The Slovieni (Russia)

Tacitus, it is true, indirectly quotes the settlement of a group of Veneti in the then Finnic territory. That this group was called Veneti in the West is evidenced by the following facts: Still in the 16th century, on a carta marina, elaborated by Olaus Magnus, the Finnic Gulf is denoted as: Mare Finonicvm sive Sinvs Venedicvs. The Sinvs Venedicvs (Venetic Gulf) could only have been named after the Slovieni (Novgorod), at that time already subjected to the supremacy of Moscow.

Slovensk (Novgovord) in the 1st century AD (reconstruction).

The settlement was composed of wooden houses.

Further on, recently researchers with a Novgorod dialect, as published by the miscellany »Ocerki kulturi Slavjan« (Moscow 1996), discovered astonishing similarities between the Slovieni and the Western Slavs (Veneti). As reference, I adduce two of these testifyings.

The excavations at the St. Sofia Cathedral in the Novgorod Citadel (kremlin) brought to light a large number of birch-bark inscriptions. A. A. Zaliznjak, who examined many of them, stated that the Novgorod dialect developed directly from the ancient Slav (i.e. Venetic) language, and that some phonetic, morphological, morphosyntactical, and lexical isoglosses are connected with the Western Slav languages and with the Slovenian... (Lisjak, ibidem, 72). - S. M. Gluskina, a linguistic scholaress, but says, that the language of the ones (i.e. Slovieni), who settled the Novogord area, developed separately from that of the other Slavs, because at that time the phonetic process of the second palatalization appeared, which lasted there for some generations and was an isolated linguistic continuum (Lisjak, ibidem).

I think, these statements confirm Tacitus' quotation, from which one must conclude that Nestor's Slovieni only could have originated from the ancient Veneti (Sloveneti), who in the 1st century AD still settled in Central Europe.

The Venetic or Slovenetic settlement in the present-day Novgorod area is also witnessed by many Slovenian names all around this city. They could have arisen only in a previously Finnic territory. Later, when the Venetic (Slovenetic) language widely prevailed, it still possessed the proper ethnical characteristics of the Veneti (Sloveneti) in confront to their Russian neighbours. The latter, it is true, were of the same language, but they, in my opinion, preserved in their tradition many ethnical elements of the older substrate (customs, phonetic peculiarities in their speech...). Therefore, they manifested a particular ethnic entity, which could not have been overlooked by other groups.

With regards to the »Slovenian names« in that region, we are surprised to learn, that the same Ilmen Lake at one-time was called Slovenskoe morje (Slovenian Sea). A minor river in this area, today known as the Slavjanka, used to be called Slovenskaja reka (Slovenian River) until the First World War. Moreover, in the city of Staraya Russa, located on the southern bank of Ilmen Lake, the following story has become a legend:

Two warriors, brothers Sloven and Rus, as they moved from the Black Sea area far to the North, had been looking for quite some time for a good place to settle down. At last, they came to a beautiful lake. They named it Ilmen, after their sister. And, following the advice of the Magi, the older brother founded the city, Slovensk-the-Great. And, he named the river 'Volkhv', to commemorate the wise Magi, or, Volhov, in Russian. The younger brother founded the town Rusa at the confluence of two rivers. And, he named those two rivers 'Polist' and 'Porusya', after his wife and daughter.

Indeed, the first founded township of the later Novgorod, on the northern part of Ilmen Lake, was called Slovensk. In the aforesaid story, the Slovenian (Venetic) and the Russian ethnic entities are still distinguishable. The well-known Slovenian historian, Jože Pirjevec (Trieste), found the interesting data in the city library of Novgorod, that the first princess there was called Slovenka (Lisjak ibidem, 61).

Since so many references point to "Slovenian" names, the only correct conclusion that can be drawn is, that almost in its entire first period the region of Nestor's Slovieni was called Slovenia. But there is still more to it! We have witness of the very existing Slovenian dynasty called Slovenich.

The Slovenich Dynasty:

•

Sloven, Prince of Slovenia (Novgorod), 7th century AD

•

Ivan the Glorious, Prince of Slovenia (Novgorod), 8th century AD

•

Vandal, Prince of Slovenia (Novgorod), 8th century AD

•

Burivoy, Prince of Slovenia (Novgorod), 8th century AD

•

Randver, Prince of Slovenia (Novgorod), 8th century AD

•

Ratibor, Prince of Slovenia (Novgorod), 9th century AD

•

Gostomysl the Reasonable, Prince of Slovenia (Novgorod), 859 AD

•

Vadim I the Brave, Prince of Slovenia (Novgorod), 859 - 862, 867, 870 AD

In 870, Vadim (Vladimir) I finally abdicated († 872). He was followed by Godoslav, a Varyag (Viking), and the prince of Kiev, who married Umila, Gostomysl's daughter. But it seems, that Godoslav only held the title of a Slovenian prince. Indeed, according to ancient traditions, already in 862, the inhabitants of Slovensk invited his son Rurik I to become their ruler. Then, with the initial interruptions, Rurik's dynasty governed in (Nestor's) Slovenia also. - How the name Novgorod came about?

The centre of the administration of the Slovieni was first in Gorodišce (pron. gorodishche, meaning a hill fort). It was situated on the isle in the middle of the Volhov River. In the 10th century, new settlements were created close to this centre on both sides of the riverbanks. On the one side, where the Kremlin (citadel) was, the cathedral of St. Sophia was erected, in 989. In the 11th century, Prince Jaroslav had his new residence built on the other side, and called it Jaroslavovo dvorišce (pron. yaroslavovo dvorishche).

In 886, Oleg transferred the capital to Kiev. Novgorod, however, remained the centre of foreign trade, and in 997 it obtained self-government. One of Oleg's successors was St. Vladimir I the Great (of the Rurik line), Prince of Kiev and All Russia († 1015), grandson of St. Olga. He was the first Russian ruler to embrace Christianity. In 1136, Slovenia achieved independence from Kiev, and it became the capital of an independent republic. In 1044, Vladimir II († 1052) granted city status to all settlements on both sides of the Volhov River. At that point in time the name Novgorod (new city) was officially introduced. It was the expression of the sovereign Slovenian (Venetic) Republic now called Great Novgorod, that embraced the whole of Northern Russia to the Urals.

The new capital of the ancient Slovenia (in Russia), Novgorod, was so important and rich, that the state itself started to become known as the Republic of Novgorod or solely Great Novgorod. It is very interesting, however, that a particular quarter of the new city was named Slovenski konec (Slovenian quarter). It stretched out behind Jaroslavovo dvorišce. On its edge, the Slovenski holm (Slovenian hills) are raising, on which later the Sts. Peter and Paul Church was erected in ca. 1406.

View on medieval Novgorod and the city plan,

indicating the Slovenski konec with the Slovenski holm (Slovenian hill)

This Great Novgorod was the first and the only republic in Russia. It gained control of a vast swath of territory in Northern Russia and was a centre of trade. It was far less autocratic than the other Russian principalities of those times. The Prince was elected by a council of nobles, also known as the Novgorod Vece (pron. veche), which had the legislative competence. It was the ancient parliament, the democratic assembly of representatives of all city parts or all free people in most important cases. The Vece not only elected, but also exiled the princes. Although, they held supreme military and judicial powers, the princes had no administrative function. This power was vested in elected magistrates. However, the first popular assemblies were disorderly, and power was gradually amassed by the aristocracy.

The strength of the republic rested on its economic prosperity. Situated on the great trade route to the Volga valley, it became one of the four chief trade centres of the Hanseatic League. German merchants had a colony in Novgorod. The enterprising merchants of Novgorod extended the power of the republic over the entire north of Russia, levied tribute even beyond the Urals, and founded many colonies. The citizens of Great Novgorod escaped the Mongol invasion of Russian territory, after 1236. With Alexandr Nevskij on the head they also repulsed the attacks of the Swedes (1240) and of the Teutonic Knights (1242). At its height, in the 15th century, the population of the Novgorod Republic rose to ca. 400,000. Its splendour during that period, its hundreds of churches, its great shops and arsenals, its huge fairs, have all furnished rich themes for later Russian art and folklore.

The 15th century, however, also witnessed the start of Novgorod's long struggle with Moscow for supremacy. Internecine disputes among the republic's leaders weakened it in the face of growing Muscovite strength. Although it became a vassal of Moscow after the Muscovite invasions, in 1456 and 1470, Novgorod was allowed to retain its self-government. It was not until 1478 that it came under Moscow's complete control and lost its freedom. Novgorod retained its commercial position until St. Petersburg was built in 1703.

Novgorod - The cathedral of St. Sophia and the church of Sts. Peter and Paul (1406) found on the Slovenian Hill. The latter, as it seems, still reflects a Slovenian touch.

The Slovenci (Carantania)

In this article, the reader's attention was directed to several similarities between the Slovieni (Russia) and the Slovenci (Carantania), as referenced by the Russian scholars A. A. Zaliznjak and S. M. Gluskina, who adduced the linguistic similarities between both ethnical groups, as well as many Slovenian (Venetic) names. But there are many other similarities.

Regarding their ancient state organization there has to be particularly pointed out the great conformity between the ancient Slovenian and Russian people's law (consueto). It is very possible that the ancient Russian people's law prevalently descended from that of the Slovieni. Its similarities with the people's law of the Slovenci must be searched in the common Venetic (Sloventic) origin and tradition.

Without having any knowledge of the existence of the Veneti, the well-known Slovenian historian, Josip Mal (Mal, Probleme 1939), draw people's attention to this problem already before the Second World War, when he referred to the work of authors like Vladimirskij-Budanov or T. Taranowski. Like in Novgorod, the popular assembly in pre-feudal Carantania was also called Veca (pron. vetchah). In this (national) assembly the delegates, called good men, were the peoples' representatives, who elected the Prince (duke). Among the aforesaid similarities, the Veca is the most characteristic one on the judicial field. Carantanians also elected magistrates, etc. Both, the Slovieni (Russia) and the Slovenci (Carantania) are evidence of an ancient State organization, which based on social structure and on territory.

Nevertheless, scholars already as a rule are reckoning Slovenians to the group of Southern Slavs, who demonstrate a whole different juridical tradition and social structure. Beside the ignorance, under such circumstances the forced subjugation to a state ideology, the Yugoslav (Southern Slav) one, is evident. The Southern Slavs (Yugoslavs) had to be regarded as the ancestors of Slovenians, on the other hand they should have appeared as »separatists«. Says Milko Kos, a well-known Slovenian historian: In the period between the end of the 6th and the end of the 9th century AD, a Slovenian does not differ from his neighbours of the same stock and blood in the South and South-East... (Kos, Zgodovina 1955). This statement, it is true, was given without the necessary argumentation, but it must have been written in accordance with the ideology of the State, which financed the academic institutions.

Some years later, Francé Bezlaj, the Slovenian linguist, just because of the so great structural diversity of the Slovenian language in contrast to the Southern Slav ones, concluded, that a Slav tribe must have arrived in the Eastern Alps (i.e., the historical Slovenian territory) already before the supposed great migration wave from the Balkans in the 6th century AD (Bezlaj, Eseji 1967, 122). Then, with regards to the Slovenian language he also envisaged further »waves« and said: There is an astonishing great number of Russian - Slovenian lexical parallels in the Slovenian expressional fund. They are not limited to the defined dialectical environs only, they are found all over Slovenia. The majority is found in the western area... One can conclude, that the »Easterlings« arrived among the last migration wave, and settled at the most exposed and the poorest soil... (Bezlaj, Eseji 1967, 132, 133).

In this way, the Slovenian question of origin was somewhat corrected, but it was not explained in a persuasive way. In his statement Bezlaj ascribed the aforesaid parallels to the supposedly preceding migration wave, as assumed by him. But the parallels, it is true, are prevalently found in dialects of western Slovenian territory. He overcame an evident contradiction with the explanation, that the »Easterlings« were one of the last ones who arrived, and that they must have settled on the poorest soil (Bezlaj, Esseji 1967, 132). But even this territory, in regards to Slovenian linguistic and cultural traditions, is the most archaic one. Besides, the same migration wave, which first was considered to be a previous one, now became "the last one". Thus, a new contradiction.

View on the very well maintained Kremlin (citadel) of Novgorod

So many discrepancies regarding the Slovenians are also found with other authors. They can only be solved by taking into consideration the existence of the ancient Veneti. Their original language was gradually widely spread to many other peoples, who from the ethnical point of view never were Veneti. In this way the »Slavs« appeared. Such a denomination is, now as before, an academic construct. It was shaped on linguistic similarities only, and it became the base for the Slav and Southern ideology. Its unreliability becomes clear, if we, for example, should have reckoned to the »Romans« also the Spanish speaking Mexicans, Argentineans etc., or to the »Germans« the English speaking Americans... Yes, Slovieni and Slovenians, until now, one could not have foreboded that the common roots go back to pre-history. The question of the origin of the »Slavs« must be revised again.

(Concerning the origin of Khazars as a direct connection between them and the Veneti is not known. But we think about the mission, that St. Cyril carried out among the Khazars in the early 9th century. He and his brother Methodius thereafter were missionaries among Slovenians (from the linguistic point of view: Veneti) in Pannonia and among Moravians. The saint brothers spoke the Slav language very well, which they knew from their native Salonika (Macedonia). After our sondages, ancient Macedonians spoke a Venetic language. Now, one must ask, how did St. Cyril carry out his mission among the Khazars? The conclusion is, that they only could have spoken a Slav (in fact a Venetic) language. In this connection we dare to warn of the Tripolje Culture (Ukraine), which was a remainder of the Band Ceramic Culture (ca. 4000 – 2000 BC). The Veneti, it is true, originated from the substrate of this culture, which after 2000 BC was overflown by the so-called Indo-Europeans, which arrived from the East. Thus, it is very probable, that the Khazars spoke a Venetic language, which was similar to the Slav.)

Bibliography:

	•	Heinrich Kunstmann: Wie die Sloviene an den Ilmensee kamen, in: Welt der Slaven (Halbjahresschrift für Slavistik, Jg. XXX, 2, N.F. IX, 2), München 1985

	•	Bruno Volpi Lisjak: Cupa, prvo slovensko plovilo in drevaki /Cupa, the first Slovenian sailing gear and the canoes/, Trst 2004, 61 ff. - For the existence of the Slovensk name, B. V. Lisjak quotes the annals of the Holopievsky monastery on Mologa River and other authors.

	•	Milko Kos, in: Zgodovina Slovencev /Slovenian History/, Lublana 1955, pp. 33, 34

	•	France Bezlaj: Eseji o slovenskem jeziku /Essays about the Slovenian language/, Lublana 1967, p. 122

	•	John Nikolls: The House of Rurik, in: The Augustan Society Omnibus 14, Torrance (Calif.) 1993, p.19

	•	Ocerki kulturi Slavjan /Outlines of the Slav Culture/, published by the Institut Slavjanovedenia i balkanistiki (Rossiskaja akademija nauk), Moskva 1996, pp. 86 - 93

	•	Josip Mal: Probleme aus der Frühgeschichte der Slowenen, Lublana 1939, p. 120 ff.

Slovenskie kljuci

The surroundings of Izborsk (west of Pskov), Russia

Simone Arnoffi

This discovery was made by Simone Arnoffi, a young student of Russian language and culture from the Treviso area of Venetia, Italy. On a student trip to the surroundings of St. Petersburg and Izborsk, which is 30 km west of Pskov, he came across the area's well known water sources called Slovenskie kljuci (pron. klyutchi), literally meaning Slovenian springs. Not long ago, we introduced in Carantha the one-time Slovenia (Venetia) in Russia, as the Great Principality of Novgorod or Slovensk was first called until the 15th century AD. We quoted already many Slovenian names, which were preserved in this region until today. (cf. article The Slovieni).

The waterfall called "Slovenskie kljuci" near Izborsk, in the region of Pskov (Russia).

Simone Arnoffi's current research adduced another Slovenian name found in the area. In today's Slovenia, the etymon kljuc or kluc has been conserved only in the meaning of key. However, in the original Croatian language, which is close to Slovenian, the word "kljuc" still means a water source. This reminds us of the name Kluc, as the creek is called, which flows under the main street of Trieste (now Via Carducci). At one-time, this street was known as Klutsch Street.

Alexander the Great

356 - 323 BC

Was he a Venet?

The Macedonian question

Alexander the Great (356 - 323 BC)

Dr. Jožko Šavli

The discovery of the Veneti re-opened anew the question of the language spoken by the ancient Macedonians. In this connection, Charles Bryant-Abraham recorded Alexander the Great (356 - 323 BC), King of Macedonia and Greece, who, at a gathering admonished one of his men, Philotas by name, to talk in his mother tongue and not in Greek (cf. The Augustan, Vol. XXXI, Nr. 3, Daggett, Calif. 1999, p. 21). His mother tongue could have been only Macedonian, which evidently was different from Greek.

Yet, to which linguistic group pertained the then Macedonian language? I would say, we find a reliable answer in the inscriptions of Dura-Europos, deciphered by Anthony Ambrozic (cf. his book on "Adieu to Brittany", Toronto 1999, p. 74 ff.). He deciphered inscriptions based on the language, which I call Venetic, from which the Slav languages descended. - On this question see my explanations below.

What was Dura-Europos? It was a fortress on the Euphrates in present-day Syria, founded by Alexander the Great. Shipments from India were transported by sea and on the river Euphrates to the docks of this fortress. There, they where displayed, reloaded, and hauled over land to the Mediterranean coast. Thus, it was a very strategic post, which Alexander the Great entrusted only to his most reliable men. And, as the inscriptions in the "Slav" (Venetic) language confirm, they were his compatriots, the Macedonians. The garrison of Dura-Europos evidently survived the decline of Alexander's empire. The aforesaid inscriptions descend from the period of the Romans, who annexed the fortress in 165 AD, and were expelled by the Sassanians in 256 AD. Nevertheless, these inscriptions do not bear witness yet, that the then Macedonians were of Venetic origin.

In my researches concerning the Veneti, I found out, that in the pre-Roman period several peoples spoke nearly the same language: Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, continental Celts, very probably also Phrygians,... But they were not of Venetic origin. Anyway, with regard to the Macedonians, an important indication of their Venetic origin is the quotation of Herodotos (ca. 480 - 425 BC), who also mentioned the presence of the Veneti in the Illyricum (I, 196), i.e., in the Balkans. But where was the territory of their settlement?

	Pella, north of Salonika, was the capital of Alexander the Great and of Macedonia. In the South it bordered on Thessaly, where still today the names Venetikos and Veneton bear witness of the Venetic origin of the Macedonian people.

I suppose, they were the ancestors of the Macedonians. Thus, because on the border of ancient Macedonia (in present-day northern Greece) I find even today a village called Veneton, situated on the Aegean coast (Thessaly) near Zagora. Further on, a tributary of the Aliakmon (Bistrica) River is still called Venetikos. I believe, these names bear witness of the places, where the very Venetic area ended. Other Venetic or Slav names are found inside all over the Greek peninsula and in the Peloponnese. But these are, in my opinion, a legacy of the Pelasgians, who spoke a similar language, even if they were not Veneti.

The Veneti had their origin in the Lusatian culture (ca. 1500 - 1100 BC), and their migrations into all directions of Europe were carried out around 1200 BC and after. Therefore, the so-called Vinca culture of ca. 4000 BC (Vojvodina), because of such a great distance of time and place, certainly did not pertain to the Veneti or proto-Veneti. The symbols it left behind are similar to the letters, but no one succeeded to individuate any words from them. In opposite to this, the Veneti evidently used the script.

An ulterior characteristic of the Veneti was their social organization, based on the village community called vas. This community was composed of family dwellings, among which the field was divided. The social organization of many other peoples, like Celts, Germans, Illyrians... was based on the great family - Sippe, clan,... with the common field. In the Balkans, such a great family, called "zadruga" (in Serbian) or "rod" in (Bulgarian), was preserved until the 20th century AD. So, I am very anxious to know, whether or not in the tradition of Macedonians there are traces of such a (Venetic) village community and if in their language the word Vas exists? It is known to me, that in Macedonian language exists the word Drzava (State), but the basis of it was formed by village communities.

It could be that the word Vas did not develop among Macedonians. But also the Drzava is an ancient Venetic tradition of social organization. Anyway, these noble and peaceful people descend from the ancient Veneti. Their spirituality and religious experience must be considered of Venetic origin. I will cite an example only: During the Turkish occupation, two brothers secretly chiseled a fantastic altar in the church of St. Salvator in Skopje . They evidently were inspired by an intuition, which I identify with the ancient Venetic spiritual message of the inside. Much more examples of such a spirituality and religious sentiment are found all over present-day Macedonia.

	Dionysus riding the Panther (Pella, mosaic of ca. 300 BC). The panther (leopard) was a divine animal in the suite of several divinities already in the antiquity.

Concerning Alexander III the Great, King of Macedonia and Greece, we know, that he was educated in a splendid Greek civilization. But his soul evidently remained Macedonian, or Venetic. From his conquering of the world, one cannot imagine, that he was born with the desire to subjugate territories and peoples, but rather to bring peace and progress to them. Such a desire had also the ancient Veneti, who wanted to bring to the world their idea of salvation after death.

In his inner self, Alexander the Great experienced this message also, but because of his Greek upbringing, the message remained an intuition only, and did not mature in his consciousness and in his thinking. Anyway, his men and the people understood his way and followed Alexander. In the East, his image was preserved among the people and entered later the Christian era.

HOW IT ALL BEGUN

Borut Prah

In early eighties Dr. Jozko Šavli, professor of economics in Gorizia, was doing a research on a linden tree (tilia europaea ). Tilia species is spread all over the Northern Hemisphere. Its wood is so perfect for carving that it has been used for most statues in churches. Even its bark has been employed by Russian peasants for their summer footgear.

In Slovenia, however, linden tree has been considered much more than a renewable natural resource. From time immemorial, it has been considered a national tree due to its special role. To this day, many a Slovenian village still clusters around an ancient linden tree, and for a good reason. Throughout history, the tree has served as a social and political center of the village. To its inhabitants it symbolized the "tree of life".

Šavli's research led to an interesting discovery: Only certain Slavic ethnic groups had such reverence for a linden tree. He noticed that while Southern and Eastern Slavs had no special interest in the tree, the culture and politics of Western Slavs, i.e., Slovenians, Czechs, Slovaks and Poles evolved under their linden trees. Beyond these Slavic lands, reverence for the linden tree continued into eastern, central and southern Germany, eastern Switzerland and in Tyrol.

Curious, thought Šavli, that an allegedly ancient Slavic custom straddles several foreign ethnic groups whose territories were never reached by the migration of Slavic tribes, while it is ignored within the ethnic group itself, this is, by Southern and Eastern Slavs.

Then Šavli noticed that the spread of linden tree intersects rather well with the toponyms of Veneti origin. This led him to suspect that Slovenian heritage of linden tree derived from an older custom established by Veneti and not from newly arriving South Slavic tribes who had no cultural interest in the species.

An examination of written historical records further confirmed his suspicion of a link to Veneti. The writings made much more sense when viewed in relation to the civilized Veneti, rather than to the relatively primitive South Slavs.

One of the earliest records which links Slovenians to an older civilization is the report on the state "Provincia Sclaborum" in 595 A.D. (Paulus Diaconus, Historia Langobardorum, c. IV, 7). This report dates from the period when early waves of Slavic tribes had barely arrived in the area. It also refers to the Langobard kingdom as "Provincia", providing a reasonable conclusion that "Provincia Sclaborum" was organized on the level of a Slovenian kingdom or state. There is no evidence even in the official Yugoslavian history books that the migrating South Slavic tribes had at that time a political or social structure that would merit designation of "Provincia". There can be little or no doubt that Paulus Diaconus wrote about Slovenians.

A further link to Veneti from the 615 A.D. source (Vita s. Columbani) should clear any remaining doubt: termini Venetiorum qui et Sclavi dicuntur, that is, land of Veneti called Slavs. And eight years later, the inhabitants of this state are referred to as Sclavos coinomento Vinedos (Fredergarii Chronicon, ad a. 623). Indeed, many early historic documents use Slovenians and Veneti as synonyms.

Later other forms of the name were also used: Venedi, Wenden, Vendi, Vindi, and Windische. To this day, Veneti names are found all over the "village-linden-tree" territory. In Northern Switzerland, a major Roman military base Vindonissa is today Windisch. When Bavaria was occupied by the Romans, it was called Vindelicia. In Germany we have Wedemark (Wendenmark), in France Vendee, to say nothing of Venezia, Veneto, and others in Italy.…

Throughout these lands, many Venetic place-names have been preserved, although the meaning of some has been lost. It is clear, however, that in Central Europe, a substrate of pre-historical Venetic vocabulary has survived the Middle and Modern Ages and is now part of the Slovenian language. Many Venetic inscriptiona have been recently deciphered on the basis of Slovenian language and other Slavic languages.

Šavli published his research in 1985 as a study in Glas Korotana Issue No. 10, Vienna (see above). It immediately raised a major polemic with heavy political ramifications: if Slovenians are not South Slavs, or more particularly, Yugoslavians (a term Yugoslavia was created around 1930), then they are not bound to the state of Yugoslavia and the South Slav brotherhood.

His research provided rationale for Slovenia's independence.

Not surprising, the Yugoslavian communist government, already on the verge of economic collapse, sprung a violent opposition to any notion of Slovenia's independence and especially against any doctrine which would provide moral and ideological foundation toward secession. The whole academic apparatus was engaged, but no rational counter-arguments to the fledgling Veneti theory were found.

The key proponents of the Veneti Theory were an unlikely group. Dr. Jozko Šavli, an economist in Italy; Matej Bor, a famous former communist poet, author, and linguist in Slovenia; and father Ivan Tomazic, a priest, professor and philanthropist in Austria. Šavli wrote the first study, Bor solved the enigma of the Tablets of Este and deciphered many Venetic inscriptions, and Tomazic wrote reviews and commentaries, and also funded the publications.

Title-page of the German edition (1988) and of the Slovenian edition (1989)

of the book about the ancient Veneti

Their joint efforts on Veneti Theory was first published in German (1988), then in Slovenian (1989), in Italian (1991), and in English (1996). A Russian translation is being prepared. Several collections of articles, polemics were published in Slovenian (1991, 1995, 2000).

Title pages of the Italian edition (1991) and the English edition (1996)

about the ancient Veneti

The Russian edition was completed in 2002

Recently, the book "Veneti", written by Dr. Jozko Šavli, was published in Russian language in Moscow. It is the first part of the English publication "Veneti, First Builders of European Community" issued by three authors: Jozko Šavli, Matej Bor and Ivan Tomazic (Vienna 1996). The recent Russian edition deals with the part, that was published for the first time in Slovenian (Vienna 1985), and then, together with the work of Matej Bor, in German (Vienna 1988). Followed by another edition in Italian (Vienna 1991), which also included the contribution made by Ivan Tomazic, who was curator and publisher of all books treating the Venetic topic. The studies treated in the book, deal with the origin of the Slavs and other nations of Central Europe, like Italians and Germans for example.

The discoveries continue to create a major upheaval and rethinking of many facts on which ancient European history has been written. It is now up to the world of academia to interpret the history with open mind in light of these discoveries. Of course, knowledge of Slovenian language, currently only spoken by fewer than two million people, will be essential in this endeavor. (January 2001)

The Veneti

Wenden, Winden, Windische

Dr. Jožko Šavli

A mysterious people, whose traces we encounter in the nomenclature and in the customs throughout Germany as well as in nearby countries. Their name reflects also the form of the present-day linguistic groups like Wenden (Sorben of Lusatia), Winden (Kashubi of Pomerania) or Windische (Slovenians) and also Veneti (in Veneto, Italy). Their traces are to be found in all territories between the Baltic and the Adriatic Sea, where today different nations live. Who were the Veneti?

We must go back to the prehistoric period of the pre-Indo-European time. I prefer to call it rather the Afro-European period, because in those times of Mesolithic the same nomadic cultures extended practically from North Africa over Europe toward and still over the Ural. Around 4200 BC the first agrarian culture developed on the fertile loess grounds on the upper river basins in Central Europe. In archaeology it is called band ceramics, after the decorations on its vessels. It is characteristic that the social structure of this culture was based on the matriarchal. The power of this culture lasted to the end of the third millennium BC.

Around 2000 BC there were incursions of nomadic people from the East who conquered Central and Western Europe. They were bearers of another type of culture called string ceramics, and their social structure was based on the patriarchal. They are called Indo-Europeans because of their linguistic area, which extends today from Europe to India. They impregnated the groups of fishers and hunters, but they did not destroy the agrarian group in Central Europe.

On the contrary, the (Afro-European) agrarians continued to exist as a substratum under the (Indo-European) superstratum, and around 1800 BC a new culture called the Aunjetitz culture, with its center in Bohemia, began to flourish. Around 1500 BC it was followed by the potent Lusatian culture with its center in Lusatia (Luzice, Lausitz), that could be retained as the cradle of the people of Veneti. Their social structure was not based on patriarchal and not even on matriarchy, but father and mother were the head of the family.

From the territory of the Lusatian culture many migrations took place into all parts of Europe, around 1200 BC. Many names are conserved until today especially in the territory between the Baltic and Adriatic Sea (Wind-, Wend-, Windisch...), we say that they were called Veneti or Vends by their neighbours. They spoke a language which was close to the present-day Sorbian, Kashubian and Slovenian, in general close to the languages of the Slavs, but they cannot be identified with them. Until today their substratum, as for instance in Germany, can be identified, irrespectively of the language, by some ethnic signs, especially by the fact that in the village life and culture the linden tree plays the chief role, whereas by the very Germanic and Celtic people this role belongs to the oak.

It is important to say that the migrations were not initiated with the intention of conquest and subjugation, but by a religious message, as archaeology ascertains. Today one would say, that this message was the imagination of life after death and the doctrine of the salvation of the soul. It is still conserved in the religions in India (Vindia). They arrived there ca. 1000 BC and encountered in the Indus basin the Aryans from the preceded immigration (ca. 1800 BC).

In Europe, after the migrations, a compact Venetian territory was installed between the Baltic and Adriatic Sea. The Veneti cremated their defunct and placed their ashes into urns, that were buried on large cemeteries called Urnfields. Therefore the name Urnfield culture dates back to their civilization and gives an imprint to the prehistoric Europe from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean. After 800 BC many cultures took on form in this territory, which altogether are called the Hallstatt culture (named after a rich finding place in the Eastern Alps). The most important regional cultures were those in the Alps and in the Po River basin: The cultures of Villanova, Golasecca, Este, Melaun, and Eastern Hallstatt. Here also the Situla art flourished.

Among those cultures the Este culture is particularly very characteristic. During its period many inscriptions in Venetian writing appeared around 500 BC. Numerous examples of these inscriptions are conserved until today, and it is a very important fact, that the Slovene linguist Matej Bor was able to decipher many of them on the basis of the Slovenian and other Slav languages.

O S T I J A R E J

The decipherment of the Venetian inscription (Ts 1) of a situla found close to Škocijan on the Karst, kept in the Archaeological Museum in Trieste. The meaning is still today comprehensible in Slovenian: Osti (remain), Jarej (young), in the sense: Drinking from this vessel, keeps you in good health and young (Matej Bor).

O S T I J A K O U S E D I C A

The Venetian inscription (Tr 3) kept in the Museum of Treviso. The decipherment with help of present-day Slovenian: Osti (remain), Jako (like), Usedi (sit down), Ca, pronounce: tcha (there). - Remain, like you sit down there (Matej Bor)

B U G O Š A S O V I Š A D

The Venetian inscription from the Zila Valley (Gt 16), found at a site under the Plöcken/Pleke Pass (1360 m). Now it is kept in the Provincial Museum of Klagenfurt/Celovec (Carinthia). Decipherment in Slovenian: Bug (God), Oša (to go round), So (this), Viša (height). - Oh God that I would go round over this height (Matej Bor).

L Y K Z (e) M E L I N K(o) S H A J I C O S K A B (i)

The Venetian inscription from Baca close to Most na Soci (Idrija) (Is 3) which means: Lyk (holiday), Zemelin (of the earth), Kos (when is), Haji (repose), Cos ka, pronounce: tchos ka (how so ever). - The holiday of earth when it is, repose, how so ever it may be (Matej Bor)

After 400 BC the migration of the Celts enclosed Europe, except for several remote areas, like the Alps and Scandinavia. The Celts introduced another type of culture, the La Tène culture, named after an important finding place in Switzerland. Their language was similar to that of the Veneti. However, their ethnic essence was very different. Their symbolic tree was the oak. Their social organization was not the community of the village (as in Veneti culture) but groups of kinship (Sippe, in German) based on patriarchal.

Some of the Celtic people had influence on Venetian groups by giving them their names. Bohemia received its name from the Celtic Boi people. The Poles are called by their German neighbours Lechen and by the Ukrainians Ljahi, which refers back to the Celtic Volcae (Welschen). Here is another proof of the Celtic influence on these nations. In Poland, for instance, appears in people's tradition the Venetian linden tree and also the Celtic oak. Celtic influence did not touch the Kashubi (Winden, in German), who partially still conserve the name Slovinci.

The Celts even reached the British Isles. There resided a population that belonged to the Atlantic culture, and who did not follow the footprints of the Celts, but nevertheless, they left them their name. Therefore, the present-day Celtic language (Inselkeltisch) is not their own original one, (Festlandkeltisch) which used to be almost equal to that of the Veneti. During the Roman era the Celtic groups were Romanized and gradually lost their original identity, even in the core of their Gaul territory. Only scattered names record their one-time presence.

This was not the case with the Venetian substratum. In the centuries BC (the exact time is unknown) they arrived in the Eastern part of Europe where they superimposed their agrarian culture on Finnic fishers and pickers. This group of Veneti represented the Slovieni, which are mentioned by the chronicler Nestor around the year one thousand. From them originate as a linguistic group the Russians, Belorussians and Ukrainians.

In Middle Europe the Veneti or better said Wends adopted gradually other languages, but they were for a long time identifiable by their juridical status which comprehended the ancient jus gentium. So the juridical book Sachsenspiegel (Saxonian Mirror, ca. 1275), by enumerating the juridical persons of the Medieval social system, alleges:... Sachse, Wende und Wendin, Jude... Incredible, after more then thousand years the influence of the matriarchy is still alive. Whereas in other nations in sense of the ancient patriarchal only the man has the juridical capacity, the same capacity belongs by the Wends (Veneti) also to the wife.

In the following centuries the German feudal system spread over many provinces in Middle Europe, and therewith the German language was also spread. Gradually the modern German nation (Deutsche) began to form. But it is certain that the ancient Venetian substratum (Wenden) in this nation exceeds that of the ancient Germans (Germanen), but the German language today prevails nearly completely. The original language has been conserved only in two linguistic isles of the Sorbians in the Lower and in the Upper Lusatia (Nieder Lausitz und Ober Lausitz).

The Venetians - our early Ancestors

Ivan Kobal

History, unlike mathematics, is an imperfect science and can never be complete or totally impartial.

Facts are denied, distorted, ignored, forgotten. History is often written long after the denials, the distortions, the memories of events and their consequences have disappeared. When the bare facts of the past resurface like fossilized plants or prehistoric animals, the expert historian is there to draw conclusions.

Such conclusions are often incompatible with accepted traditions and beliefs, and it takes all the skill of the historian to convince the conservative scholars that their beliefs are being proved wrong.

This process of buried truth being brought back to life after centuries of oblivion is mostly due to undemocratic systems of government in periods of dictatorships and nationalistic mass manias, during which history books are destroyed and replaced by new ones to suit the people in power. This is often followed by a complete reversal, back to former freedom and glory, but without much documentation, because it had been lost. At that stage people's national pride and imagination builds up stories and traditions on hearsay of veterans and the historian is confronted with the task of sorting out the evidence and reading between the lines what can be verified and confirmed.

In these circumstances it is hard not to be partial in favour of available material and against the darker periods of doom and destruction of documents.

Nevertheless, every now and then, especially in recent times with the help of modern technology, a bombshell is uncovered, a historical scandal of wide ranging consequences confuses every issue and condemns many history books to the scrapheap. Copernicus, Galileo, Darwin and others, have certainly given historians a lot to reconsider and scholars to chew.

One such historical bombshell was uncovered some years ago by Slovenian historians and has been mushrooming into the sky of the future ever since. Dr. Jozko Savli, Ivan Tomazic and Matej Bor formed a trio of experts on archeology and languages and came up with the discovery of documentation, which unveils a set of facts about European history and early Europeans totally different and opposed to the previously accepted theories.

Barbaric invasions which took place in Europe, moving from east to west in the dark ages and marking their path with misery and devastation, left the historians barehanded and triggered off a series of false theories, to suit megalomaniacs and self proclaimed superior races to the detriment of fine past civilizations. These had been almost destroyed, but left monuments of fine social institutions, which could be, and in fact were, taken later as a model of modern democratic forms of government.

To uncover these facts took Savli, Tomazic and Bor many years of study and research, followed by arguments and controversy, but at the end, in 1989, a jewel of historical discovery was published in Ljubljana and the bombshell exploded.

"Veneti - nasi davni predniki", (The Venetians - our Ancestors"), a book of 528 pages, was presented to European historians and appears to have become for history the challenge of the century.

The book has enormous value and consequence, and it is no wonder, that the "Veneto - mania" is mushrooming beyond the borders of tiny Slovenia, which is demonstrated to have been much greater in the past than the traditional historians were up till now prepared to admit.

The German version of the book, "Unsere Vorfahren die Veneter", caused a stir among German historians and history teachers, so did in Italy and elsewhere the Italian edition, "I VENETI, progenitori dell'uomo Europeo". In Slovenia, the book was not welcome at first and the old school of scholars, who for centuries maintained that all the Southern Slavs, including the Slovenians, migrated in mass from the region of the Carpathian Mountains in the 6th century AD, tried to ignore it. But the bug didn't go away and the controversy is now raging unabated.

To further expand, consolidate and make available to more people the knowledge of the new version of European history, Ivan Tomazic has spared no effort to prepare the English translation of the book. However, I should point out that there are enough Slovenians around the world reading English every day, who should be keen to see printed the history of their ancestors, encourage others to read it and should order the book in a number big enough to give Ivan Tomazic the sign to go ahead.

For all our concerns, let it be known to everybody, the mask over the face of Slovenian history, conveniently used by German, Italian and Slavic interests to excuse their conquests, suppression of fine democratic systems and domination, has now been lifted and true history can and will restore the self confidence of a resurrected nation, the nation of the "Slov - Veneti", SLOVENIA.

Object Image, replacement for Object that Trellix was unable to create from RTF.

Timeline of Slovene history

The neutrality of this article is disputed.

This is a timeline of key events in the history of Slovenia and the nations that lived and live on Slovene ethnic territory, mostly Slovenes. We might start with Kobal's words: History, unlike mathematics, is an imperfect science and can never be complete or totally impartial. Ivan Kobal

1300s BC

NOTE a theory about connections between the Veneti and Proto-Slovenes is believed to be speculative or even pseudohistorical. - Carantha's Remark: It is not "believed" but considered as such by the official historians.

Circa 1300 BC - The Veneti (Venedes) ('Venetkeni', 'Venetkini', 'Venedi', 'Vinedi', 'Vendi', (Jordanes 'Venethi'), 'Sclavi', 'Sclavini', (Jordanes 'Sclaveni'), 'Slovonici') (Greek Venedes, Homer shortened the name to 'Enetoi', Jordanes wrote 'Ainetoi' ("Laudable")) | (also Wenets, Veneds, Venets, Wenetes) (not to be confused with Venetians or Venicians), the Proto-Slavs (Proto-Slovenes, Slo-veneti, Sloventi), an Aryan folk from Sorbian (Lusatian (Lusation), Wendish) culture along the Amber Road conquer and settle region between the Baltic and Adriatic Sea.

1200s BC

Circa 1200 BC - The Veneti, the bearers of the Urnfield culture, come from the north and settle in the Alpine area of Slovenia, northern Italy, eastern Switzerland and Austria during the Late Bronze Age.

1100s BC

Circa 1150 BC - The Veneti from Paphlagonia, a region in today's northern Turkey on the Black Sea, continued East across Persia and Afghanistan after the defeat of Troy reach Punjab across the Khyber mountain pass (1022 m). - Homer talks about the Venets, and so do the Greeks, using the name Henetoi.

Roman historians claim their leader was Antenor (Antenore), originated from "Troy" Troy.

1100 BC - The new combined nation, known until today by the name of Aryans or Hindi, was able to penetrate towards East to the river valley of the Ganges and conquered the whole area up to the Himalayas. A new vast country came into existence, which still today carries the name Hindustan (like Heneti - Veneti).

India - actually Vindia - was born.

700s BC

Circa 750 BC - The Etruscans (Etrurians), a non-Aryan folk migrate into northern and central Italy from the eastern steppes. - Carantha's Remark: This has not been proven.

400s BC

A well-developed Illyrian population center exists as far north as the upper Sava valley in what is now Slovenia. Illyrian friezes discovered near the present-day Slovene city of Ljubljana depict ritual sacrifices, feasts, battles, sporting events, and other activities. -

Carantha's Remark: For already half a century experts have not treated the Illyrians anymore. They rather regarded them as Celts. In fact, these people were the Veneti.

200s BC

Circa 250 BC - The Celtic Tene Culture comes to the Slovene territory and replaces the Hallstatt Culture.

221 BC - the border of the Roman Republic arrives at the Julian Alps.

100s BC

178 BC - Romans conquer Histria.

0s BC

48 BC - Noricans takes the side of the Roman caesar Julius Caesar (circa 100 BC-44 BC) in the civil war against Pompey (106 BC-48 BC).

16 BC - Noricans having joined with the Pannonians in invading Histria, they are defeated by Publius Silius, proconsul of Illyricum.

12 BC - The army of Romans, led by Tiberius (42 BC-37, reigned 14-37), starts conquering Pannonia.

9 BC - Pannonia is subdued and incorporated with Illyricum, the frontier of which was thus extended as far as the Danube.

7 - Pannonians, with the Dalmatians and other Illyrian tribes, revolt, and are overcome by Tiberius and Germanicus (15 BC-19), after a hard-fought campaign which lasted for two years.

9 - The Roman Empire finally conquers Pannonia (which includes the biggest part of present-day Slovenia). Roman legions stay in Poetovio (currently Ptuj).

Circa 40 - The Noricum Kingdom is ultimately incorporated to the Roman Empire by the Roman caesar Claudius (10 BC-54, reigned 41-54). Noricum includes Carinthia and most of Styria. From now on the whole of the Slovene lands is within the borders of the Roman Empire.

46 - Celje gets its municipal rights under the name municipium Claudia Celeia.

100s

Not later than 103 - Roman caesar Trajan (53-117, reigned 98 - 117) moves the Legio XIII Gemina to the north border in Karnunt (Carnuntum) (today Deutsch Altenburg in Lower Austria) in Pannonia along the Danube River.

200s

Circa 290 - Noricum is divided under Roman Emperor Diocletian (245-313, reigned 284-305) into Noricum ripense (along the Danube) and mediterranean (the southern mountainous district).

300s

Circa 320 - Celeia is incorporated with Aquileia (Oglej) under Roman Emperor Constantine I (272-337, reigned 307-337).

400s

Circa 400 - St. Jerome hypothetically translates some writings in a Slovene dialect of Proto-Slavic into Latin.

500s

Circa 500/550 to 570/592 - The ancestors of Slovenes settle in Eastern Alps (Julian Alps, Karavanke), occupying an area more than twice the size of today's Slovenia. Carantha's Remark: This has never been proven!

Circa 551 - An Ostrogothic historian Jordanes writes in The origin and deeds of the Goths about 3 nations 'Veneti' ('Wenethi'), 'Sklavens' ('Sclaveni', 'Slevene' ?) and probably the east (or south Slavs), the bravest nation among them called Antes (Greek Antae, Russian/Ukrainian Anty, Slovene Anti). All his three terms might also be just synonyms for one nation. Jordanes actually states that there are three names for Wenethi - Wenethi, Antes and Sclaveni (Jordanes, Getica, c.XIII).

568 - The Langobards from the margin of Pannonia break and move into Italy. The independent Slovene state possibly appears in the Eastern Alpine area (provincia Sclaborum), later named in sources as Sclauinia or Karantania.

595 - According to Paul the Deacon, who was a medieval Lombard chronicler, in 595 Tassilo, king of Bavarians, attacked 'the province of Sclabi'. Some consider it the first mentioning of the Karantania state.

600s

610 - Avars attempt to invade Italy.

612 - John Babbiensis in the biography of St. Columbus specifically names Slovenes as Veneti.

623 - The formation of Karantanian King Samo's state.

625 - Uprising of the 'west' Slavs led by Samo against Avars.

631 - The Battle of Wogastisburg (probably Forchheim) between Samo's army and Austrasian forces, led by Merovingian king Dagobert I of the Franks (603-639, reigned 629-639).

658 - Samo's death. The Slav tribal union collapses but a smaller Karantania persists.

700s

745 - Karantania loses its independence and becomes a margraviate and tantamount part of the semifeudal Frankish empire later under the rule of king Charlemagne (742-814, reigned 771-814) due to pressing danger of Avar tribes from the east.

800s

803 - Christian Church divides Slovene territory along the Drava river between the Salzburg archdiocese and the Patriarchate of Aquileia.

840 - the Balaton Principality emerges in Pannonia.

843 - Karantania passes into the hands of Louis the German (804-876).

871 - The earliest written record of the ancient Karantanian ritual of installing dukes "Conversio Bagoariorum et Carantanorum", where is written: …illi eum ducem fecerunt... (they were made dukes).

876 - The principality of Prince Kocelj (Balaton Principality) loses its independence.

887 - Arnulf of Carinthia (850-899) a grandson of Louis the German assumes his title of King of the East Franks and becomes the first Duke of Carinthia.

894/895 - Great Moravia probably loses a part of its territory - present-day Western Hungary- to Arnulf of Carinthia, who failed to conquer Great Moravia in 892, 893, 894/895 and 899

895 - Accord between Arnulf of Carinthia and the Bohemian Duke Borivoj (reigned 870-895), Bohemia is freed from the danger of invasion.

896 - The Magyars from Asia, led by Árpád, settle in the region around the Theiss River (Hungary)

899 December 8 - Arnulf of Carinthia dies.

900s

Circa 906 - Invading Magyars destroy the weakened empire of Moravia.

907 - Slovene territory is settled by the Magyars.

952-1180 - The Great Karantania.

955 - German king Otto I (912-973, reigned 936-973) at the Battle of Lechfeld near Augsburg defeats the Magyars, halting their advance in central Europe, Austrian March is established.

976 - Karantania becomes a duchy in its own right, including Styria and the present East Tirol provinces.

1000s

1000 - Carinthia, Styria and Carniola provinces emerging on a territory of Karantania.

1122-1137 - The first mention of Celje in the early Middle Ages under the name of Cylie in Admont's Chronicle,

Circa 1142 - Herman of Carinthia (circa 1100-circa 1160) in León among other begins to translate the Qur'an into Latin.

1144 - The first records mentions Ljubljana by its modern name (by its German name Laibach).

1146 - Ljubljana is mentioned by the name Luwigana.

Carantha's Remark: From this point Slovenian history continues, but it does not differ from that what already has been published. Therefore we omitted the continuation.

~~~

Notes

(Temporary but interesting)

Some modern sources imply that Veneti and Etruscans were highly connected and it is not known yet which nation influenced on each other. We can also freely say that Etruscans can be somehow the predecessors of the Slovenes.

(More on this to come)

The discovery of an expert Catalan archaeologist Pere Bosch-Gimpera.

Mierow: http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/%7Evandersp/Courses/texts/jordgeti.html

~~~

External links

Embassy of the Republic of Slovenia, Washington, DC, History Timeline: http://www.embassy.org/slovenia/more3.htm A Brief History of Slovenia: http://www.sigov.si/vrs/ang/slovenia/history.html

Some recent still speculative new theories about Slovene (Veneti) origins:

http://www.carantha.net/

This article is from Wikipedia

Carantha's Final Remarks: For a long time already, we know that there are many affinities between Sanscrit and the Slovenian language. Anyway, there was no explanation for it. The discovery of the existence of the Veneti as the ancestors of the Slovenians, and their migrations in ca. 1200 BC finally made it possible to clear up this "uncommon" phenomenon. Some years ago, Dr. Šavli came across the book "Les Indo-Européens" (Paris 1961), written by Pere Bosch - Gimpera, the well-known Catalan archaeologist. Dr. Šavli published an article about the Veneti in Carantha. Based on the finds, the aforesaid archaeologist described the »Hindi« (Veneti) on their road from Asia Minor through northern Persia and Afghanistan to India. It was after the fall of Troy. It is certain, that the Veneti - Heneti gave the name to Hindustan. It is very possible that India was originally called Hindia or Vindia. Recently, Dr. Šavli wrote a longer study on this subject, which has been published in Carantha and in http://www.hervardi.com/novice.php It is written in Slovenian and bears the title Vindija.