| Echo often receives letters from our readers, telling us about the benefits of our material. They are using the provided text as subject matters to educate their children. We are delighted. Several readers also draw the attention of their friends and acquaintances to our website http://www.carantha.net/ and are helping in this way to spread the cultural message of our Slovenian heritage and roots. Many thanks! - Carantha Editorial |
| Croati, Veneti |
| March 6, 2006 |
| Pozdravljeni! |
| Med prebiranjem vaše spletne strani, ki me tako mimogrede zelo navdušuje, sem zasledil razlago karantanskega imena Kroat oz. Hrvat. Razlaga govori o nekakšni švedski besedi … Zelo me je zmotilo. Rad bi povedal svoje mnenje o izvoru besede Hrvar oz. Kroat, hkrati pa vas opozarjam, da nisem jezikoslovec, ampak da v prostem casu velikokrat poskušam razvozlati izvore geografskih imen, ki jih zasledim medtem, ko se vozim širom Slovenije. |
| Podobno kot karantanija oz. karantan - gorastan, po mojem mnenju izhaja beseda Kroat oz. Hrvat iz preproste slovenske (slovanske) besede GOROVAT, v smislu Gorjan, to je tisti, ki živi v gorah oz. v gorati pokrajini. Razlaga: V slovenskem jeziku je mnogo primerov, še vec pa v ostalih zahodno slovanskih jezikih, »preglasa«, kjer glas G prehaja v K, H ali celo J (zgovoren primer je izgovorjava glasov G v primorskem narecju; le-ta prehaja v H). V slovenšcini je tudi mnogo primerov, ko samoglasnike izpušcamo (praslovanska bereg; naše breg, praslovanska galava; naše glava …). Od tu naprej ni vec veliko razpravljati: Gorovat - Korovat - Krovat - Kroat in/ali Gorovat - Horovat - Hrovat/Horvat - Hrvat. Tudi nekateri slovenski priimki so izpeljani iz besede Gorovat (Gorjan): Hrovat, Horvat, Hrovatin … |
| Morda bi Hrvate morali, zgodovinsko gledano, enotiti s Slovenci (Veneti), saj tudi vzhodno-slovenska narecja (štajersko, prekmursko), rahlo prehajajo v hrvašcino in obratno, severno-hrvaška narecja v slovenšcino. |
| Zmoti me tudi izgovorjava besede Venet oz. Veneti (mn.) s povdargom na drugi e. V latinšcini se je crka T velikokrat izgovarjala kot C (v severno-italijanskih narecjih še danes prehaja c v t in obratno). Morda bi morali izgovarjati kot Venec in Venci (mn.), seveda s poudarkom na prvem e: torej Vènec in Vènci! |
| Zelo bi me veselilo, ce bi komentirali mojo razlago in predlog! |
| LP, Boštjan Japelj, Trebnje |
| Carantha Editor's comment: |
| Nase mnenje o izvoru naziva Hervardi (od tega verjetno tudi Hrvati, pa priimki Horvat) je navedeno v clanku o hervardih (cf. Korenine Part II, article "Croatians" from Carantania). To pa ne pomeni, da bi moralo biti dokoncno. Navezava naziva na isti koren kot pri gori je prav tako mogoca, potrebna pa bi bila o tem ustrezna jezikoslovna raziskava. Mi smo pri opredelitvi pomena karantanskih "hrvatov" izhajali z vec vidikov. Prvic, iz razporeditve krajev s hrvaskim imenom na obmocju Karantanije. Kraji s temi imeni se nahajajo okoli Celovske kotline, kjer je bilo sredisce karatanske drzave. Drugic, iz besede "heri" (tudi geri, geraj - udari, tolci, pojdi naprej), kot v razlagi nekega venetskega napisa navaja tudi Matej Bor. Sloj hervardov v Karantaniji bi bil torej nekaka straza, ki je imela namen, zavarovati ob vdoru tuje vojske sredisce in strateske tocke v drzavi, dokler se ni zbrala redna vojska. Tretjic, iz predpostavke hrvaske zgodovinarke Nade Klaic, da je lahko edino Karantanija prvotna domovina (dalmatinskih) Hrvatov. Zakaj vir o njihovem izvoru navaja, da so bili nekoc pod Franki. Poleg Hrvatov okoli Prage in Krakova pa so bili svoj cas edino Hrvati (hervardi) v Karantaniji pod Franki. Iz tega bi sklepali, da je prav njihov sloj dvignil poganski upor leta 770 in se po porazu, ki mu ga je zadala bavarska vojska (v imenu Frankov) umaknil v Dalmacijo, in tam vzpostavil novo drzavo. |
| *** |
| Reply to: The world needs a stronger UN (Herald International Tribune 09/19/05) |
| March 6, 2006 |
| Military Parade in Slovenia |
| Dear Carantha Editors, |
| The people who oppose the upcoming military parade to celebrate the sacrifices the Slovenian Army made so that all Slovenians can live in a free, democratic and independent country are the usual crowd of former communists, socialists, left wingers and their supporters in the media and academic circles who also dismiss Slovenian history in relation to Carantania. Its important to remember however, that they do not represent the opinions of the majority of Slovenians. |
| Moreover, the people who are opposed to the Slovenian military parade should ask themselves one important question; |
| Do they want to be masters of their own destiny like Slovenia is today, or do they want to be slaves to someone else like Slovenia was prior to 1991? |
| Peter Jama |
| *** |
| Vprasanje bralca o Karantaniji |
| January 26, 2006 |
| Ponovno pozdravljeni! |
| Zahvaljujem se vam za prijazen odgovor. Spodbudil me je, da vam ponovno postavim vprašanje v zvezi z poimenovanjem. - V slovenskem zgodovinopisju se je skoraj povsem in povsod udomacilo ime Karantanija za državo, ki je bila prednica kasnejših avstrijskih dednih dežel v rokah rodbine Habsburg. Ime Karantanija je najbrž naše zgodovinopisje povzelo po nemškem. Slednje ga je posnemalo iz latinskega imena Carantania. po zatrjevanjih uradnega zgodovinopisja je izraz keltskega izvora, slovenskega nikakor ne. Vendar je ravno nasprotno. Carantania nedvonmo izhaja iz domacega izraza Korotan. Pomen slednjega je lepo razložil že A.T. Linhart. Navaja, da je v bistvu to zloženka iz Goro in stan, v pomenu dežela gora. Korotan se kasneje preoblikuje z zamenjavo koncnice -tan v Koroška. Povezanost izrazov Korotan , kasneje Koroška, z Carantania potrjuje tudi ohranjanje obicaja ustolicevanja na Koroškem. Nenazadnje pa tudi sorodno nemško ime Karnten. Zato se mi je pojavilo vprašanje, zakaj se v knjigi Slovenska znamenja in slovenski izdaji Slovenija, podoba evropskega naroda ne uporablja domaci izraz Korotan oziroma Koroška, saj je ta ves cas nositeljica ustolicevanja. Namrec za dežele Vzhodnofrankovskega kraljestva uporabljate lepo slovenske izraze za dežel. To so Bavarska, Švabska, Saška in Frankovska. Ce bi bili dosledni bi na primer morali namesto Bavarska tako uporabljati izraz Bavarija. Pa kljub temu uporabljate izraz Bavarska. Vladarje pa tudi nazivate kot koroške vojvode. primer Arnulf Koroški in Kraljevina Karantanija ali Karantansko Kraljestvo. Resda bi bilo nemara zmešnjava, ce bi uporabili za uradno imenovano Karantanijo izraz Koroška, ki se danes nanaša le na deželo obsegajoco zgornje povirje Drave. Vendar menim, da gre za izraz doslednosti in jasnosti o tem, da je ustolicevanje, naslov nadvojvoda in ozemlje avstrijskih dednih dežel, ki bi danes na grobo obsegale današnjo Avstrijo in Slovenijo, bile sprva imenovane z domacim imenom Koroška, starejše Korotan. Šele kasneje se je z oblikovanjem robinskih posestev in fevdalno razdrobljenostjo Koroška razkosala. Ime Koroška se je zožilo le na današnjo avstrijsko zvezno deželo. Okrog nje pa so se od casa nastanka Velike vojvodine Karantanije oblikovale iz mejnih krajin nove dežele, kasneje povzdignjene v vojvodine. |
| Drugo vprašanje je povezano z zgoraj omenjeno Veliko Vojvodino Karantanijo. Ta izraz sem sicer zasledil na spletni strani Hervardov. odgovorilo mi je na vprašanje v zvezi z pomenom imena Velika Karantanija, ki je oobstajala od 952 do 1180. Pridevnik Velika pred Karantanija mi resnicno ni bil jasen, povprecen laik bi domneval da zaradi obsega. Vendar ce pogledamo na zemljevid je bila ta Karantanija širša od prejšnje izpred leta 952 izkljcno za Veronsko in Furlansko krajino. Zato pa je nekdo, ki mu ni všec bilo povelicevanje Karantanije, oziroma meni ljubše Koroške, se vprašal, kdo si je vzel pravico in tja spredaj postavil pridevnik Velika. Dejansko res ni jasno zakaj. To mi je kasneje pojasnilo tudi to, da se Luksemburg pravilno naziva Velika Vojvodina Luksemburg, jasno ne zaradi velikosti, ampak zaradi velicine bi laho rekli. Zaradi izkljucevanja nejasnosti bi morali torej uporabljati izraz Velika Vojvodina Karantanija. Ali pa nadvojvodina. Vladarje namrec nazivate z nadvojvoda, deželo pa z nadvojvodina z latinskega Archiducates. |
| Tretje vprašanje oziroma dvom pa je v zvezi z še poznejšo Notranjo Avstrijo. Gospod Šavli navaja, da najbrž ime izhaja ali iz starejšega Notranjega Norika ali zaradi osrednjega pomena, ki gs je imela Notranja Avstrija vsebujoca Koroško pri oblikovanju Avstrije. Kasneje sem v starejšem prirocniku z imeni vladarjev za svetovne države, ki so ga izdali študentje z ljubljanske Filozofske fakultete, pod Avstrija našel jasnejši odgovor. Tocno Vam ne zna navesti vladarja in letnice, pripada pa je rodbini Habsburg. Spomin glede sosledja vladarjev mi peša. Vendar sem opazil, da je prišlo mislim, da v 14. ali 15. stoletju do delitve Avstrije kot celote vseh avstrijskih dednih dežel in pa Ceške in Ogrske, na tri Avstrije. To pa zaradi treh moških potomcev, ki jih je imel vladajoci Nadvojvoda Avstrije, Kralj Ceške in Ogrske, ... . Najstarejši je podedoval Nizko Avstrijo, Kraljevino Ogrsko in Ceško. Drugi po starosti Notranjo Avstrijo. Najmlajši pa Visoko Avstrijo in prednje dežele, tudi predalpske. Nizka Avstrija je tako obsegala današnjo Spodnjo in Zgornjo Avstrijo. Notranja Štajersko, Koroško in Kranjsko. Visoka Avstrija pa Tirolsko in predalpske dežele, najbrž je to južna Tirolska v Italiji, imenovana Sud-Tirol. Vsak od treh potomcev je tako imel naziv nadvojvoda in tako pravico do izvolitve za cesarja Svetega Rimskega Cesarstva. Nadvojvodine so bile poleg Avstrije, Koroška in Tirolska. Nastali so zato tudi trije nadvojvodski klobuki. Avstrijski, tirolski in štajerski. Slednji je poimenovan po štajerski veji rodbine Habsburg. Sicer neupraviceno, najbrž zaradi središca Notranje Avstrije na Štarejskem v Gradcu. Ime štajerski pa so mu najbrž dodali kasneje. Obicajno namrec vladarjev ali rodbine niso poimenovali po deželi vladanja. Z prej navedenega lahko sklepamo, da se izraz Notranja pred Avstrija nanaša na zemljepisno postavitev. Znana je delitev Kranjske na Gornjo, Dolnjo in Notranjo oziroma, Gorenjsko, Dolenjsko in Notranjsko. Mnogo krajev na Slovenskem se tudi deli vsaj na Zgornji in Spodnji "del" in nekateri na Notranji ali Srednji. Tako npr. današnje Notranje Gorice, prej Vnanje. Zaradi njihove zemljepisne osredišcenosti glede na podrocje, ki ga te Gorice na Ljubljanskem barju obsegajo. |
| Vesel bom vsakega Vašega odziva na moja vprašanja ali predloge in pa lep pozdrav. Ivan Golob |
| Carantha odgovarja: Pismo je nekoliko dolgo in zahteva tudi daljši odgovor. Daljših odgovorov na dopise navadno ne dajemo, saj to presega naše možnosti. Ker pa gre v tem primeru za vprašanje, ki nedvomno zanima tudi vecje število naših bralcev, smo pripravljeni prispevati k temu, da bi bila zgodovinska slika, ki jo je avtor pisma tako lepo prikazal, še nekoliko jasnejša. Torej! |
| Ime Karantanija - Najbolj verjetno je, da ga je tudi slovensko zgodovinopisje prevzelo naravnost iz latinskega vira, v katerega so pisci vnesli ime, ki je bilo v zgodnjem srednjem veku živo. To ime lahko izhaja od Gora(s)tan, kot ga je razagal že Linhart. Še bolj verjetno pa od naziva kar, za skalnato pecevje. V slovenskih imenih se ta naziv pojavlja vecinoma kot ker (Badjura), od cesar prihaja po mehcanju tudi cer, z novim pomenskim odtenkom. - Ime Koroška skoraj gotovo ni izvedenka od imena Karantanija, temvec je le-temu vzporedno. Nemška stran si ga ni prilagodila in je ostala pri Kärnten (od Karantanija). Prvotno je bilo ime Koroška razširjeno na vso današnjo Avstrijo (razen Tirolske). Kot takšno se je pri Cehih ohranilo do danes. Zakaj njihovo Rakusko (za Avstrijo) je samo premena prvotnega imena Koruško. Cehi so torej že od nekdaj mejili samo na "Koroško". |
| Naziv velika vojvodina - V zgodovinskih virih se res ne omenja, vendar je upravicen. Veliko Karantanijo je tvorila (ožja) vojvodina Koroška, ki so jo obdajale krajine. Koroška in njene krajine so kot celota tvorile veliko vojvodino z imenom Karantanija. Potem, ko so krajine ena za drugo napredovale v samostojne vojvodine, je v zgodovinskem pogledu kot najbolj izvirna med njimi ostala Koroška. Odslej naziva Karantanija v virih ne srecamo vec. Na Koroškem se je v izrocilu ohranilo tudi slovensko pravo, imenovano institutio Sclavenica ali lex Slavica lex. Zgodovinarji v Ljubljani kot tudi v Avstriji ga vztrajno zamocujejo. - Luxemburg kot velika vojvodina je veliko poznejša tvorba in ga ni mogoce primerjati z veliko vojvodino Karantanijo niti po casu niti po vsebini. |
| Naslov nadvojvoda - Nadel si ga je leta 1359 vojvoda Rudolf IV Ustanovnik v listini Privilegium maius, zato da bi bil tudi on na ravni volilnih knezov, ki so pri kralju simbolicno opravljali dvorne službe. Svoj cas je tudi koroški voivoda imel tako službo: bil je nadmojster lova v kraljestvu (cesarstvu), kot nam poroca vrinek v pravni knjigi Schwabenspiegel iz leta 1275. Toda, ko je cesar Karel IV. te službe v Zlati buli (1356) uzakonil in jih povezal s pravico volilnih knezov, se nadmojster lova v zvezi s Koroško ne omenja vec. Mogoce zato, ker je bil tedaj avstrijski vojvoda obenem tudi koroški vojvoda. Dvorni pisarji pa so videli samo avstrijskega, kateremu pa omenjena služba ni pripadala. Lahko pa so ga prezrli tudi nalašc, ker odnosi med rodbinama Habsburg in Luxemburg, ki ji je pripadal Karel IV., niso bili najboljši. Na vsak nacin, listine Privilegium maius, ki je bila ponarejena, na dvoru niso priznali. Priznana je bila šele leta 1453, ko so Habsburžani prevzeli kraljevski in cesarski prestol. Vsebina te listine dejansko prenaša stare pravice dežele Karantanije na avstrijskega vojvodo. Naslov "nadvojvoda" so kasneje nosili vsi clani cesarske rodbine Habsburg. |
| Vojvodski klobuk - Nosi ga prav vojvoda Rudolf IV. na pecatu, ki je pritrjen k listini Privilegium maius. Gre dejansko za krono, cetudi ima naziv "klobuk". Njegova najstarejša upodobitev pa se nahaja na freski v apsidi stolnice v Ogleju (1031). Ima ga na glavi karantanski vojvoda Adalbero, zacetnik karantanske dinajstije. Bodisi v tem kot v prejšnjem primeru ima klobuk samo en lok. Avstrijski klobuk (1616) kot tudi tirolski (okoli 1595) pa imata dva loka, ki sta prekrižana. |
| Delitev dežel - Leta 1379 so si sinovi Rudolfa IV. razdelili dedne karantanske dežele. Najstarejšemu sinu Albertu III. sta pripadli Zgornja in Spodnja Avstrija. Mlajšemu Leopoldu III. pa dežele Štajerska, Koroška, Kranjska… (Notranja Avstrija). Zakaj "notranja"? Po mojem je bil ta naziv lahko povezan z imenom Notranji Norik. Ime Noricum, pod katerim je mišljena Karantanija, se namrec še cela stoletja po propadu rimskega cesarstva prepisuje iz listine v listino. Prav tako pa je tudi mogoce, da je dostavek "notranji" samo geografski. Habsburški vladarski rod se nadaljuje v Leopolodvih naslednikih (Leopoldinska linija). |
| January 6, 2006 |
| Podobno kot mnogi drugi bralci sem presenecen nad stranjo in jo oboujem. ob |
| prvem stiku se mi je pojavilo vprašanje pomena imena "Carantha". |
| Ivan Golob |
| Carantha answers question: |
| In 1991, when Slovenia declared independence, the idea of a Slovenian historical state called Carantania or Sclauinia was already pushed underground. It was the direct consequence of the Yugoslav ideology, which was contrary to the Slovenian State idea. Moreover, in independent Slovenia the ex-Yugoslav apparatus continued to maintain its position and continued its ideological role, as it did in the former Yugoslavia. This apparatus, which is controlling the school system and the mass media, did not allow for the Carantanian idea to ripen in the public mind. Perhaps, it was a confidant of the post-Yugoslav apparatus who has foisted the following words into the speech of Pope John Paul II, when he visited Slovenia in 1996: Slovenians, for the first time in history you have your own proper state... So, some years ago, when Mr. Branko Ježovnik opened this website, his first aim was to fill the vacuum of the missing historical traditions of Slovenians and to tell the true history of Slovenia. The appellate »Carantha«, of course, is a new-coined word, a new name which derived from the word Carantania. Its main purpose was to reflect the historical, the state and the cultural tradition of Slovenians and to establish Slovenia's place in the European reality, where it had its roots. This national image, too, has been suppressed in independent Slovenia by Yugoslavia. Carantha website has tried to correct the distorted picture and to present it to the world. In this message we would like to point out that Carantha has achieved a certain success. |
| January 15, 2006 |
| Ali Avstrija prizna da je to zgodovinski objekt Slovenije? |
| Henry Stalzer, USA, (iz Gorenjske) |
| Does Austria recognize the Prince's Stone as a Slovenian historical object? |
| Many thanks for your interest. We would like to take this opportunity to clear up some other misconceptions concerning the symbolic Prince's Stone. |
| Of course, as for the present, Austria will not recognize the true origin of this historical object. Why? The Austrian people, it is true, even though they speak German, are of Carantanian (Slovenian) descent. Not only that! The awareness, that the Austrian State originates from Carantania (Kärnten), rooted for centuries in the mind of the Austrian people and the leading class, although, instead of the modern term »Slowenisch« (Slovenian), the older term »Windisch« (Vendic) was commonly used. For example, in the first half of the 16th century the Carinthian nobility still bore reference to the »Windischlandt« (Carinthia), which, because of its origin, had particular rights. But this and similar facts remain concealed to the Carinthian and Austrian people. |
| In the ancient Austrian Monarchy, the question of the Prince's Stone and its historical origin in general was not addressed until the 19th century. Then, the German national (pan-German) as well as the Yugoslav (pan-Slav) ideologies and the corresponding nationalistic movements began to spread. Austrian (Carantanian) history, carried out with falsifications on the academic line (University of Graz), began to be separated into a "German" and a "Slav" one. Since then, the German speaking Austrians, because of their language, were consistently told to be of German (Bavarian) origin. Of course, it is about an ideological indoctrination. This is clearly evident in the case of the German speaking Swiss people, who do not bear reference to be of "German" origin. (Approximately 70% of the Swiss population speaks German (Swabian), and most of them are descendants of the pre-Christian Raeter). Of course, the falsifications on the academic line, because of academic authority and its "scientific" arguments, should convince the every-day man and woman. The truth is however, that until 1918 Austria and Slovenia were a unique State, which originated from Carantania and had a common history. |
| Anyway, the remainders of the ancient pan-German and pan-Slav (Yugoslav) structures continued to destroy the Carantanian (Austrian) political, cultural and ethnic tradition. Some years ago, their endeavour was to include Slovenians in the Southern Slav historical world and Austrians in the German national area. Since the existence of independent Slovenia, this endeavour tends directly towards the destruction of the Slovenian historical and ethnical identity. The attacks are coming from both sides, from Carinthia (Austria) and from the ex-Yugoslav structures in Lublana (Slovenia). Both sides deny the Slovenian historical identity. One has to wonder, when one sees, with what a malicious pleasure Mme. Claudia Fräß - Ehrfeld, the official historian of Carinthia, declared, that the Carinthian dukes of Slav origin never reigned south of the Karavanke ridge. She, in particular, pointed out the denotation »Slav« instead of Slovenian, as to deny Slovenians the Slovenian historical identity and to humiliate Slovenians. |
| Is it possible to take serious at all such historians? Obviously, their aim is not to discover the historical truth, but rather spread their ideology, meaning falsifications of key factors. Nevertheless, the Carinthian ideological raid against Slovenians received soon support from the ex-Yugoslav historical circle in Lublana, where the historical identity of Slovenians is denied in a similar way. Here, of course, they are acting on directives of Belgrade. Consequently, one cannot believe, that the »Karavanke ridge« still represents a demarcation line between the German national and Yugoslav (Serbian) influence area. No wonder, when not long ago the saying was going around in Belgrade: »The Serbian wolf will still howl on the Karavanke ridge!« |
| (Carantha Editorial) |
| (cf: Under the Black Panther Flag, article: Nova generacija v Sloveniji - (New Generation of Slovenia) |
| Proper coat of arms for Slovenians in Carinthia (Austria)? |
| January 12, 2006 |
| Proper coat of arms? - Slovenians in Carinthia (Austria) should be granted a "proper" coat of arms? The idea, of course, originated in Ljubljana, which also provides financial support to certain Slovenian circles in Carinthia. One gets the impression, that the author of the "arms" is also from Ljubljana, and that he is entitled to royalty payments from the above mentioned financial support funds. This affair reminds us of the one-time bluff concerning a public invitation on "new" symbol proposals for Slovenia. The LDS deputy Jozef Skolc had an intentional purpose in mind, which got the confirmation stamp of the Slovenian Parliament. Very tricky! - In this case, the "proper" Carinthian Slovenian arms have also another purpose. Giving them their own arms would mean, to separate Carinthian Slovenians from the common historical and cultural Carinthian (Carantanian) tradition. Very cunning, isn't it? Indeed, after the Prince' s Stone affair, which had just the contrary effect, one can imagine that it is about a new conspiracy accorded by anti-Slovenian forces of Ljubljana and Klagenfurt. They simply don't give peace a chance. |
| Manfred Kar |
| Thank You Letter |
| January 2, 2006 |
| Thank you to all involved with the Carantha website! |
| I have been reading it regularly over the last few months since I first discovered it, and I feel I have learned so much about my heritage as a person of Slovenian descent. |
| My late father (1920-2003) was from Slovenia; he immigrated to Australia after WW2. He was from the Vipava Valley region. |
| I'm trying to trace my Slovenian background, in particular, the family name Vrtovec, which was my father's surname. From what I can recall of what my father told me, his family was involved in wine production. His father was also a linguist, who was killed by the Fascists. My father's mother was of French background, her surname was Bozzec. I have taken both names as my surname in honour of my heritage. My father chose my first name, Marinka, naming me after one of his cousins. |
| I have always been aware of my background, due to my name (everyone always asks "Where are you from?" when they hear it) and so-called Slavic appearance (as opposed to the dominant Anglo-Saxon appearance of the "typical" Australian, despite the fact we are meant to be a multi-cultural nation!). |
| Although I don't speak Slovenian (sadly, my father lost touch with his native language due to having to learn English when he came to Australia, as well being forced to speak Italian during his youth because of the Fascist occupation in the Littoral) I feel a strong connection to my heritage. However, I do recall my father singing songs in Slovenian at times, and even his English was peppered with words from many languages - besides Slovene, also Italian, German, and others. |
| I really enjoy reading the fascinating articles you present on both the historical and contemporary issues regarding the Slovenian people, and I commend you all for your excellent work in this area. |
| I would love to hear from anyone with information about my father's surname, Vrtovec, & any other news of his family. Also, I have ordered the book about the Veneti, which I'm looking forward to reading very much. I also hope to visit my true homeland soon. |
| Thank-you again for the way that you are promoting Slovenia to the world, and for helping me to re-connect with my heritage. You are creating positive changes on both a global and personal level. |
| Yours sincerely, |
| Marinka Bozzec-Vrtovec. |
| Carantha editor's comment: |
| Thank you very much for your beautiful letter, which touched our hearts and strengthened us to believe in our mission that we undertook for uniting those Slovenians, whose life has been interrupted by wars. |
| Zakaj ne tudi v slovenšcini? - Why not also in Slovenian? |
| December 28, 2005 |
| Ali je na tem Carantha tudi v slovenšcini, mar bi bilo smiselno in pravilno? Hvala za odgovor. |
| LP, pf |
| Carantha's reply: |
| (Slovenian) |
| Veseli smo bili Vašega vprašanja, in radi odgovarjamo nanj. Na Caranthi objavljamo prevsem gradivo, ki je v javnih obcilih v Sloveniji vecinoma zamolcano. Objavljamo ga v anglešcini, zato da bi bilo dostopno tudi svetu, v prvi vrsti potomcem slovenskih izseljencev, ki govorijo skoraj samo angleško, vendar se zavedajo svojih slovenskih korenin. Približali pa bi radi podobo Slovenije tudi mednarodni javnosti. Zadnja odkritja na podrocju slovenske kulture in zgodovine so namrec naravnost osupljiva. Toda vse to ostaja v Sloveniji še naprej zamolcano. Slovenci smo že od nekdaj evropski narod. Za nas pri Caranthi je prvenstvenega pomena, da nova podoba Slovenije pride v svet. Seveda bi radi objavljali gradivo tudi v slovenšcini, toda naše moci in možnosti nam tega vsaj zaenkrat ne dopušcajo. Prosimo torej za razumevanje. Vaše priznanje in širjenje našega sporocila nam je v veliko spodbudo. - Uredništvo Caranthe. |
| (English) |
| We are very pleased with your letter and want to answer your question. Carantha is publishing in the first place material, which is suppressed by the massmedia in Slovenia. We are publishing in English, as to make the material accessible to the world, in first place to the descendants of Slovenian immigrants. The majority of them speak only English, but they are proud of their Slovenian roots. Besides, we also want to present Slovenia to the international public. Thus, the latest discoveries in the field of Slovenian history and culture are actually astonishing. But in Slovenia they remain suppressed. Indeed, Slovenians are the descendants of an old European nation. Our primary task is to ensure that the new - old image of Slovenia reaches the world. Of course, we would like to publish the materials also in Slovenian. But for the time being we don't have the necessary manpower, and are asking for understanding. Your recognition and spreading the word of our message is of great encouragement to us. - Carantha editorial staff. |
| December 28, 2005 |
| Hello, |
| I just discovered your web site tonight and I think it is absolutely facinating. My grandfather on my mothers side of the family was a first generation Slovene. The family surname was westernized to the name Matson, but I have been told that the original name was Mackon(?). Some one from the Ukrain told me that the pronunciation was most likely "Mashon" or "Machon" with the meaning of "fish". Would you possibly know? By the way my grandfather was given a knights (?) burial, and before he passed away he gave me a silver and crystal rosary with a small shield on it dated 1830, I've never seen a rosary like it before, but I have to confess, I'm not a Catholic, but a Mormon, so I don't know if it is common or special. |
| Anyway... thanks for posting all of the Slovenian information on your site... maybe I'm going to have to learn to speak Slovene after all. |
| Stanley Ray Main |
| Garden Grove, California |
| Carantha editor answered: |
| A great number of Slovenian family names derived from words denoting animals. Surnames like Macek (pron. matchek, meaning cat) and Mackon (pron. matchkon, meaning a "big he-cat") are still widespread in present-day Slovenia. |
| Reply to the Herald International Tribune, April 28, 2005 |
| December 28, 2005 |
| Dear Carantha Editors, |
| People should stop making excuses for Slovenia's economic success and prosperity and simply admit that it is due to the thrift, hard work and intelligence of the Slovenian people and not some "other factor". |
| For example, in the article titled, "In Slovenia, prosperity and ambition" which appeared in the International Herald Tribune earlier this year, it attempts to attribute Slovenia's prosperity to a number of factors such proximity to Western Europe, the former communist regime's brand of socialism and even the Hapsburgs. |
| This is pure nonsense because it ignores some of the following basic facts. |
| If proximity to Western Europe is the reason for Slovenia's prosperity, why are Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary who all border Western European countries not as prosperous as Slovenia? |
| If the former communist regime's brand of socialism is the reason for Slovenia's success, why are Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia not as prosperous as Slovenia nor members of the EU? |
| And if the Hapsburgs are responsible for Slovenia's economic success, why are countries such as the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland and Hungary which were all part of the Hapsburg empire, not as prosperous as Slovenia? |
| Regards, |
| Peter Jama |
| Letter to Družina re: »Odmevi, Predlogi« |
| December 23, 2005 |
| V rubriki »Odmevi, Predlogi« (pisma), ki jih objavlja tednik Družina (Lublana), naletimo tudi na netocnosti in zavajanja. Po mojem so mnoge od njih vrinjene premišljeno. Prišle naj bi neopazno v zavest bralcev, ki naj bi se ne zavedali manipulacije. Nekaj takega sem zasledil tudi v pismu z naslovom »Po šestih desetletjih« (11. decembra 2005), ki ga je objavil Janez Cernetic (Savigne, Francija). V njem se pisec upraviceno zgraža nad neprimernin nacinom, s katerim vladajoca klika v Sloveniji in njena obcila obravnavajo pomor tisocev dombrancev ob koncu druge vojne. Toda med vrsticami zasledimo v pismu tudi naslednjo netocnost, ki je lahko tudi podtaknjena in ne samo odraz nevednosti: ... Kot slovenska KP ni delal nihce v Evropi. Vojnih ujetnikov se ne pobija, zlasti ne po koncani vojni. Nobena vsaj malo civilizirana družba tega ne bi storila. Slovenski komunisti so to naredili... Res je, slovenska KP je med drugo vojno izvajala revolucijo in zakrivila številne likvidacije. Toda ukaz za pomor domobrancev je po koncu vojne prišel iz generalštaba v Belgradu, torej ne od slovenske KP. Ce pisec pisma, poslanega "iz Francije", tega ne ve, pa ve gotovo urednik Družine, dr. Janez Grill, ki ne bi smel dopustiti, da pride pismo ali »pismo« s takšno ponaredbo v javnost brez ustrezne pripombe. List, ki je verski in katoliški, in prav zaradi tega uživa zaupanje pri bralcih, ne bi smel objavljati neresnicnih navedb, tudi pod krinko pisem bralcev ne. |
| Jožko Šavli |
| December 22, 2005 |
| Who were the Kosezi in Carantania? |
| Mene pa zanima kdo so bili v Karantaniji Kosezi? |
| Ker piše v vsaki knjigi drugace, pa me zanima ce mi vi lahko pomagate |
| Hvala, Borut |
| Carantha's reply to: |
| Who were the Kosezi in Carantania? - German documents call them Edlinge. In fact, they were not "edel" (noble), as it was first imagined on part of the Germans, who gave them the name. Austrian and German historians had big discussions about their origin and identity, and so did the Slovenians on a smaller scale. In this connection, all kinds of ideological explanations were given. I consider the answer of the Slovenian historian Josip Mal as the most correct explanation to this question: Ist das Edlingerproblem wirklich unlösbar? (Is the kosezi question really insoluble?), published in Südostforschungen, München 1963. He established, that they were a free class of people, but on the other hand they had many duties. There is more to it! Such a social class was also present in England, (see Janez Stanovnik: Še o kosezih (More about the Kosezi), published in Sodobnost XI, Lublana 1963). I think, it is quite possible that the origin of the kosezi - cotsetlas goes back into the pre-Celtic period, this is, in the period of the Veneti, who during the pre-Celtic period also settled on the British Isles. Are the kosezi a venetic segment, a social class among the Angles and Saxons, who arrived on the isles after the Romans? From this point of view the question still has to be investigated. |
| December 15, 2005 |
| Stih INTERVJU MLADINA KARANTANIJA |
| Spoštovani prof. dr. Štih: |
| Z veseljem sem prebral Vaš zanimiv intervju v Mladini 12. 12. 2005, kjer zagovarjate Vaše vtise, mnenja in stališca o knežjem kamnu, Karantaniji in slovenski zgodovini. | |
| Za slovensko zgodovino se zanimam, toda pri tem sem samouk, ker sem koncal samo 1. razred osnovne šole v Sloveniji in nisem imel prilike, da bi kdaj formalno študiral slovensko zgodovino. | |
| Sedaj ko imam vec casa, hocem odgovoriti na vprašanja mojih otrok in vnukov o mojih in seveda njihovih slovenskih koreninah, zavedajoc se njihovih vprašanj, ki se sucejo okrog DNK, genetskih markerjev in pred-zgodovine. Ker imajo severno-ameriško univerzitetno izobrazbo so kriticni pri sprejemanju zakljuckov in se ne zadovoljijo samo z 'ex cathedra' izjavami strokovnjakov, ce te izjave niso podprte s podatki, ki jih lahko sami preverijo z branjem razprav na 'internet-u'. | |
| Ko berem Vaš pogovor s casnikarjem Mladine sem, po eni strani vesel, da hocete biti strokovno in znanstveno korekten, po drugi strani pa razocaran, iz znanstvenega vidika, ker zagovarjate tako ne-znanstveno stališce do primarnih virov in dokazov :... ''Za to, da so Slovani v omenjenem casu zaceli prihajati v današnji slovenski prostor, ne potrebujemo nikakršnih natancnih opisov njihove priselitve.....'' To je nevzdržno, ker to gre za zgodovinsko dobo sredi Evrope in kot pravite ''da je bil ta prostor...pol tisocletja del rimskega imperija-in to ne nekje na njegovem obrobju, ampak tako rekoc v njegovem središcu....''. Prav zato bi pricakoval primarne opise in dokaze. | |
| Ker pravite da primarnih dokazov ni, bi bil jaz zadovoljen s sekundarnimi dokazi, to je viri: ''...na podlagi katerih to naselitev lahko dobro utemeljimo in s tem tudi razložimo vse velike strukturne spremembe...v jeziku, ekonomiji, religiji, socialni in državni ureditvi, kulturi, itd......'' Upam da imate vire in dokaze, ki so bistveni za slovenski prostor in niso splošni pojavi za cel rimski imperij. | |
| Imam zgodovinske knjige kot so Zgodovina Slovencev-Cankarjeva založba, Ljubljana, 1979; Slovenska Zgodovina do Razsvetljenstva-Peter Štih & Vasko Simoniti, Korotan Ljubljana, 1996 in druge. Toda te knjige mi ne dajejo odgovor na moje bistveno vprašanje: Zakaj obstoja genetska sorodnost in genetska nepretrganost med 2500 let starimi okostnjaki iz mesta Adria v rimski provinci Venetia et Histria in s sedanjimi prebivalci Slovenije? | |
| Tukaj gre za primarne dokaze. | |
| Gotovo Vas študentje vsako leto na novo sprašujejo o pred-zgodovini Slovencev, zato bi pricakoval, da imate pripravljen morda tudi objavljen, povzetek vseh teh sekundarnih virov, ki prepricljivo dokazujejo naseljevanje Slovanov v 6. stoletju. Rad bi imel te dokaze v moji knjižnici. Kje jih lahko dobim in kako jih narocim? | |
| Lep pozdrav, J. Škulj P. Eng. | |
| December 5, 2005 |
| Haider and Austria are playing a dangerous game - Recently, the Carinthian Governor Jörg Haider invited Karl Korinek, Chairman of the Austrian Constitutional Court, to revoke his declaration, so that only the provincial government of Carinthia will be competent to regulate all bilingual place-names in the province. Anyway, the spokesman of the Court, Christian Neuwirth, rejected Haider's request. But Heinz Mayr, the well-known Austrian expert of Constitutional Law, stressed that only Article 7 of the Austrian State Treaty (1955) is valid. After Austria regained its sovereignty, it took over the responsibility to protect the rights of Slovenian and Croatian minority groups. This is, without putting any bylaws in place. Thus, the provincial government of Carinthia has a direct obligation to install bilingual place-names into territories, where Slovenian communities are established. As it was brought to our attention, Jörg Haider, instead of following the law, ordered the removal of bilingual place-name signs in Bela (Vellach)! At this point, we meet the very "Austrian" political and judicial philosophy. Hence, in the same breath, Heinz Mayr established that sanctions for non-fulfilment of the agreement concerning bilingual place-names are not feasible in real-political terms. (Not very likely!). |
| Anyway, this obligation is part of the Austrian State Treaty and has therewith an international political context. Until now the western powers and signers of the Treaty (USA, Great Britain and France) have not threatened Austria, because of non-fulfilment. They are not accustomed to pay attention to the rights of minorities. In case of the fourth signer, the Soviet Union (now Russia), it is a substantially different question. Often Russia has been considered the "mother" or the "great brother" of the Slavs. It is sad to say that in spite of such an imaginary role, Slovenians never found any support from Russia. However, this does not mean that it will remain so. Russia is still a world power, and in the future it can take advantage of the fact, that the Austrian State Treaty has not been fulfilled. Consequently, if it proclaims Austria as an unstable state, Europe and the West will be extorted. In this connection, the military security of Middle Europe has to be reassured. What an occasion for great business! In such a perspective, Jörg Haider and his Carinthian lobby, who are bringing instability to this part of Europe, could also be seen as marionettes to world powers, and the masters, who are holding the strings, do not appear in public. |
| Manfred Kar |
| December 2, 2005 |
| Reader's letter on Slovenian-German bilingual signs |
| Dear Carantha Editors, |
| Congratulations to the Slovenian attorney Rudi Vouk for his moral and legal defiance of an Austrian law that is unconstitutional due to the fact that Slovenian-German bilingual signs are not present when they should be. |
| Slovenians need more people like Rudi Vouk who are prepared to fight for their rights and take a moral stand against anti-Slovenianism wherever and whenever it rears its ugly head in places like Austria and elsewhere. |
| Peter Jama |
| Follow-up - February 21, 2006 |
| Dear Carantha Editors, |
| It seems Haider has suffered yet another humiliating defeat in his anti-Slovenian campaign - a court has ordered him to pay compensation to Slovenian Attorney Rudi Vouk. When will this poor ignorant soul called Haider ever learn? |
| Peter Jama |
| November 27, 2005 |
| Hvalezen do groba |
| Drage gospe in gospodje |
| Zelo sem Vam hvalezen za to internetno predstavitvijo slovenske zgodovine. (www.carantha.net) |
| Se veliko takih podvigov Vam zelim, |
| Miha M… |
| Spoštovani g. Miha! |
| Tudi mi smo veseli spoznanja da je naša slovenska zgodovina razkrita in povedana slovencem brez nepotrebne in neresnicne navlake katera je nastala z politicnim vplivom v tako imenovani polpreteklosti. |
| Carantha Editors |
| ___ |
| Družina promotes Karl Marx as greatest philosopher |
| November 25, 2005 |
| Concerning the "methods" used by the BBC, I would like to comment on the inquiry launched by this institution, in which 30,000 collaborating people were interviewed. The question was: Who was the greatest philosopher? The majority answered that it was Karl Marx (the theoretician of the Communism doctrine). It created, of course, a "sensation". However, the consultants could have been manipulated. But let us assume that this was not the case with BBC. In this connection one was very surprised to hear, that the Slovenian religious weekly Družina (Ljubljana) also promoted Karl Marx as the "greatest" philosopher. The author of the article was Alojz Rebula. It seems that once again anti-religious and anti-Slovenian circles made use of the religious weekly, as to spread their news among the "ingenuous" Slovenian faithful. Evidently, they still count on their inferiority complex, which for decades was inoculated into their mind. Those, who in spite of anti-religious "scientific" propaganda preserved their Faith, can read in between the lines, which sounds like a mockery: You, poor Slovenians, believe deeply in our religion, whereas the "modern" Western world considers and appreciates Karl Marx as the greatest philosopher, the founder of atheist Communism! - Such a subtle idea was foisted to Slovenians in nothing less than through the religious weekly! Indeed: You shall know them by their deeds! |
| Signature withheld |
| Petition letter from our readers: |
| November 22, 2005 |
| Dear Carantha Editors, |
| The tearing down of Slovenian-German place names in Carinthia is a disgrace which will NOT be tolerated. Indeed, in countries like Britain, Australia or the United States anyone suspected of carrying out such racist actions would be severely punished. |
| Moreover, Slovenians around the world must unite to force Haider to back down or face the wrath of the international community. |
| Ordinary Slovenians can help by lodging a protest via email. |
| Suggest emailing the following; |
| Austrian Chancellor |
| post@bka.gv.at |
| Also bring the issue to the attention of the following: |
| British Prime Minister (UK currently holds the EU Presidency) |
| http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/page821.asp |
| James Oberstar - US Congressman of Slovenian heritage |
| oberstar@cpinternet.com |
| Tom Harkin - US Senator of Slovenian Heritage |
| http://harkin.senate.gov/contact/contact.cfm |
| Peter Jama |
| Comment on: >Democracy is old, really old. And incredibly romantic< |
| (by Angelique van Engelen) |
| November 18, 2005 |
| Dear Editor, |
| Perhaps I used a little too heavy words below, yet it wasn't meant as a pamphlet. As I'm an engineer, I usually prefer to have things specified as precise as possible and that's why I stumbled over A.v.E.'s text. |
| Otherwise, I like your web pages, which I visit often. Just keep on unearthing the truth about everything that is >slovensko<. Sometimes those living abroad see much more than we do here. |
| Regards, |
| Marko Lovrecic Sarazin |
| Lavrica (LJ), SLOVENIA |
| Carantha Comment to letter dated Nov. 18/05: We are very pleased with your letter, and we are of the same opinion. Anyway, your statement: "Sometimes those living abroad see much more than we do here", gives us the opportunity to explain this question more in-depth. During the period of the Yugoslav Communist regime Slovenians were oppressed not only from the political, economical and social point of view, but also from the national one. Conscientious Slovenian citizens were directly intimidated by "nationalism" and even sent to prison for years. This happened also to Slovenian boys, who served in the Yugoslav army. After the declaration of independence of Slovenia, the post-Communist regime still continued to rule for several years, and the ancient Yugoslav intimidation of Slovenians continued until this very day. Recently, an "international" agency placed Slovenia in 9th place in regards to freedom of the press. An easily demonstrable error! The intimidation of conscientious Slovenians has existed perhaps throughout the school system. We learned from young students, who are interested in Carantania and the Black Panther, that this historical information is not taught in the classroom. The new Education Minister, Milan Zver, made no changes to the curriculum. Consequently, the saying "much more than we do here" has also another side of the coin. |
| November 10, 2005 |
| Sorry, but this is just another example of a quickly composed text with not much reliability, many of which wander all over Internet. I wonder who are those writing this sort of >essays<, and for what reason, simply by heart and without checking the real facts. To be precise, I'm not commenting on the topic itself (the democratic election of the Carantanian Duke, which is alright) but on the way how the >essay< has been put together. For instance: |
|
the world's eldest democracy ... <Hey, where are the ancient Athenians? | |
|
They did not call it a democracy but the word invented later by the Greeks...<Who, in human history, appeared first, the Carantanians or the ancient Greeks? | |
|
including the US President Thomas Jefferson a few millennia later when he studied ...< A few millennia later? In the 18th century, at latest. | |
| Combined with your own remarks, it's obvious that the text is not worth much. But this is Internet, one can put on the daylight anything she/he wants. In Slovenia, we have a proverb which says that the paper can bear just about anything and it seems the same is true for modern electronic media. Sincerely, |
| Marko Lovrecic Sarazin |
| Lavrica (near Ljubljana) |
| SLOVENIA |
| (cf: Carantania, article Democracy is old, really old. And incredibly romantic) |
| Carantha Editorial's reply to letter dated Nov. 10/05: |
| If we understood in a correct way the contents of the article written by Angelique van Engelen (Amsterdam), and her statement concerning the world's eldest democracy associated with the Prince's Stone (Carantania) and the Stone of Destiny (Westminster), previously in Scottland, she considers them of prehistoric origin, and therewith older than the Greek democracy registered in the records. In our opinion, this cannot be excluded. Anyway, the election of the new ruler and his installation on the Stone, the authoress ascribed to the Celts, whereas explorations show, that it is about the ancient social order of the Vends (Veneti). It is surprising that traces of this democratic social order are found in the ancient Vendic regions, for example in Scandinavia, or in Novgorod, in Venetia... The parliament of Novgorod was perhaps called vece, like veca, the people's assembly in Carantania. |
| (cf. The Rota, The Installation of the Dukes of Carantania) |
| (Forum Veneti Part I, article The Slovieni, A Venetic Stock in Russia) |
| Additional comment (Nov. 14/05): |
| Once again, the Prince's Stone |
| The "petition" of the provincial government of Carinthia (Austria) evidently did not have the expected effect on the public as the Carinthian governor Jörg Haider had hoped for. The "petition" referred to the 2-cent Euro coin bearing the image of the Prince's Stone, which Slovenia intents to issue in 2007. According to the local press, Jörg Haider gave orders to have the Prince's Stone transferred from the provincial museum of Klagenfurt - Celovec to the building of the provincial government, in order to be more visible to the public. |
| _____________________ |
| November 5, 2005 |
| Administrative terror in Carinthia (Austria) - Klagenfurt/Celovec, October 10, 2005. The Slovenian Council of Carinthia with great indignation condemned the behaviour of the administrative power of the country towards a Slovenian youth from Bilcovs (Ludmannsdorf). The young fellow insisted on his right, that the court penalty of 21 Euros against him should be unrolled in Slovenian language. He was willing to wait one and half-hours for an interpreter, and then he was ready to pay his fine. But that was not acceptable by the authorities. Instead, a total of three more fines was issued to him, each one amounting to 40 Euros. In this way, the young lad received a six times higher penalty because he insisted on his right to be judged in Slovenian. - This event witnesses the hostile atmosphere against Slovenians in modern Carinthia. It is certain that the administrative organs are protected for such illegal behaviour by their background circles. The protector, as one can assume, has to be searched within Cobra, the Austrian secret service. |
| Signature withheld |
| November 2, 2005 |
| The Yale University - While surfing the Internet, I came across a very good article called "Introduction to the Slavic Philology" written by Alexander M. Schenker. It was published by Yale University Press (New Haven and London 2003). I do not want to present a more detailed picture; I only want to draw attention to an error concerning the Slovenians, who once again appear in an academic paper. Thus, the author Alexander M. Schenker is quoting Paul the Deacon's work Historia Langobardorum as a testimony for the existence of "Alpine Slavs". In the historical records, however, a nation of this name does not appear. The author presents them as Carantanians, the predecessors of Slovenians. But at what point in time these "predecessors" became the very Slovenians is not to be found anywhere in his book. Furthermore, the author does not adduce the name "provincia Sclavorum" (Carantania) as well as the date of its existence 595 AD, which Paul the Deacon mentions in his work. It is true that the majority of historians and authors prefer to omit this date, because records referring to their own nations are of a much later founding. Evidently, it is about a none-scientific approach to history. In this case, not even a famous academic institution, like Yale University, can be a guarantee for the correct quotation of records. Thus, if one is summarizing materials published by prestigious institutions, it is always necessary to check the original source somewhere. |
| Signature withheld |
| November 2, 2005 |
| The Carinthian petition and its reference on Bogo Grafenauer |
| The provincial government of Carinthia (Austria) in its petition of October 25, 2005, which deals with the image of the Prince's Stone on the future two-cent Euro coin, has also made reference to Bogo Grafenauer, the well-known Slovenian historian († 1995). A design like this one on a Slovenian money unit, he should have designated as unsuitable (already in 1991)… But Grafenauer's argumentation on this issue has not been quoted. Did it really exist? Regarding his position in ex-Yugoslavia, one has to ask the question, if he really had the freedom to express his true opinion? |
| In the period after WW2, it is true, Bogo Grafenauer became the leading historian in Slovenia (Yugoslavia). Anyway, he evidently put himself under the control of the Yugoslav Communist (great-Serbian) oligarchy of Belgrade. This oligarchy, as we all know, firmly opposed the recognition of the Slovenian State tradition. Consequently, in the 50s Bogo Grafenauer published his work "Ustolicevanje koroških vojvod in država Karantanskih Slovencev" /The Installation of the Dukes of Carinthia and the State of the Carantanian Slovenians/ (Ljubljana 1952). Anyway, in the same work the German contents bears a somewhat different title "Die Kärntner Herzogseinsetzung und der Staat der Karantanerslawen". Thus, the Carantanian Slovenians found in the Slovenian original, became "Carantanian Slavs" in the German contents of the same work. In later works published by Bogo Grafenauer, we find only the quotation "Alpine Slavs" instead of Slovenians. Why? I think, he had to follow Belgrade's directives. |
| Anyway, unlike the Carinthian petition, Bogo Grafenauer, in his works, does not denote Carantania a "myth" but a state. Furthermore, he also describes the rite of installation of the dukes of Carinthia (Carantania). Therefore, if the Carinthian petition makes reference to him, why is this rite, always spoken in Slovenian language, still today concealed in history and schoolbooks of Carinthia and Austria? |
| Besides, there are several formal faults in Grafenauer's work. For example, in his Slovenian translation referring to the installation of the Duke of Carinthia (Carantania), published in the German book called Schwabenspiegel (Swabian Mirror 1275), Grafenauer translates the word "velt pfaerit" (Feldpferd - battle horse) as "kobila" (mare). In another description of the same rite, written by Otokar (Österreichische Reimchronik ca. 1305), he literally translates the quotation "vier scheiben" as "štiri plošcice" (four lamellas), which suspended from the dukes hat. But on the seal of 1303, kept in the archive of Carinthia (Klagenfurt - Celovec), we clearly see four linden leaves… Indeed, in Slovenian tradition the role of the linden tree is well known, and the battle horse was a true symbol of the armed forces. This is somewhat different from a "mare", indeed… Bogo Grafenauer also denies the historical origin of the office of Count Palatine (king's representative) in Carantania (Carinthia) saying, that this office was invented by the Counts of Goerz, etc. Thus, it has to be taken for granted that Grafenauer's interpretations are not always reliable! |
| I think, the reference on Bogo Grafenauer in the above mentioned petition was meant to convey a message to the public: the same Slovenian historian said to Slovenians, that the effigy in question is not suitable. These tactics are calculated solely on Grafenauer's academic position, which, without necessary argumentation, should be sufficient for the "common people". Actually, it is about a cheap method of manipulating the public mind. An authority like the provincial government should not exercise its power in this way. |
| Dr. Jožko Šavli |
| (cf: Alpe - Adria, article: Resolution of the Provincial Government of Carinthia) |
| October 26, 2005 |
| Dear Carantha Editors, |
| The Parliament of the Austrian province of Carinthia and its leader Jorg Haider have demanded that Slovenia not use the Prince's Stone (used to install Carantanian Dukes) on the new Slovenian currency. |
| Well I have a simple message - "Keep your hands OFF Slovenian history"! |
| Peter Jama, Australia |
| (cf: Alpe - Adria, article: Resolution of the Provincial Government of Carinthia) |
| October 25, 2005 |
| How to destroy the Slovenian language? |
| It was at the beginning of the 60s, when Slovenia banned the publication of grammar books in Slovenian schools. For several years students searched all over for old editions. Then the public announcement came that Dr. Joze Toporisic is working on a new Slovenian grammar book. Indeed, the book was finally printed and distributed, but what had happened to the Slovenian grammar? Grammar rules were missing and partly destroyed. Neglecting the distinction between the declinations, for example, a »zero-declination« was introduced. The grammar numbers were disposed as follows: Singular, Plural, Dual. It was evident, that in the next edition the Dual would be eliminated altogether, because it does not exist in Southern Slav languages. The new grammar book, as declared by the Ministry, was written on a »scientific« level. Evidently, such a grammatical confusion was caused by the Belgrade secret service. The new grammar book served only one purpose, and that was the introduction of the »Yugoslav« (Serbian) language. The following Slovenian generation, educated in the style of »new« grammatical rules and spirit, was no longer able to adopt the authentic Slovenian language and consciousness when they passed into independent Slovenia... They adopted the Ljubljana slang, which lacks the very Slovenian grammar. Today, when interested Slovenian candidates send their portfolio on invitation to Brussels for a job interview that requires Slovenian language skills, many of them do not succeed and they feel very disillusioned. The Ministers of Education, like Milan Zver and his predecessor Slavko Gaber are not aware of the real reason, because they too belonged to the Yugoslav-Slovenian generation without a national consciousness. |
| Signature withheld |
| (cf: letter on Slovenian language under foreign influence October 9/05) |
| (cf: letter on Do Slovenians want Serbian language in their schools? October 4/05) |
| *** |
| October 23, 2005 |
| Gentlemen. |
| The moto of the New York Times is "All the news that's fit to print". |
| It should read "All the news that's fit to distort". They have a very long and fine record of doing just that! |
| You wouldn't think they would tell the truth would you? |
| Richard Jamsek , USA |
| (cf: Slovenia in the News Media, article: Not everything is true what your read...) |
| October 23, 2005 |
| Criticizing NY Times editors about misleading information on Slovenian History |
| Dear Carantha Editors, |
| Congratulations for pointing out the misleading information contained in the New York Times about Slovenian History. I sincerely hope you contacted the New York Times editors to convey your concerns in order to rectify this misinformation and/or ignorance. |
| Its the duty of every Slovenian to ensure our history is accurately and truthfully written and one way to ensure this happens is to inform these media outlets of their errors. Moreover, they can't then use the excuse of "I didn't know". |
| Peter Jama, Australia |
| (cf: Slovenia in the News Media, article: Not everything is true what your read...) |
| October 19, 2005 |
| Religion and Ideology |
| With reference to your article titled Maria Saal - Gospa Sveta, I would like to comment on Rev. Wilhelm Mucher, who in the 60s and 70s was the parish priest of the Cathedral. He was depicted as »anti-Slovenian« because of his views, and one made the See of Gurk (Klagenfurt) responsible for appointing him as parish priest of this particular cathedral, which has as much historical meaning for Slovenians as it has for other Carantanians, who speak German today. Mucher's criticism toward St. Cyril and Methodius, the apostles of the Slavs, echoed loudly in the mainstream. Evidently, Rev. Mucher grew up in an atmosphere, which continuously stressed that the »Slav« peril threatens Carinthia (Carantania). Carinthia was presented as a »German« historical and political legacy only, what Mucher believed. Anyway, his view was not different from that of any other German speaking intellectual in the country. |
| On the Slovenian (Slav) part, however, a critical retrospective must be done, too. There, the veneration of St. Cyril and Methodius, the apostles of the Slaves, willy-nilly meant the diffusion of the pan-Slav idea and ideology, which was strongly promoted. On the other hand, the remembrance of St. Modestus († 767), the apostle of the Carantanians (Slovenians), has been almost completely neglected. In Slovenia, it was not until the 80s that the first church consecrated to him was built in Kranj. Thus, if until this very day the Church in Carinthia is under the influence of the great-German ideology, than the influence of the pan-Slav ideology on the Slovenian Church has to be recognized, too. Evidently, in Carinthia (Austria) as well as in Slovenia (Yugoslavia), the confidants of the regime inside the Church carried out their mission successfully: the artificial division of the Carantanian religious tradition between »Germans« and »Slavs«. It did not only change the guidance in faith and morals for the religious «sheep« but also for the Church hierarchy. |
| Manfred Kar |
| October 14, 2005 |
| A new Statute for Catalonia |
| Catalonia moved closer to independence on October 7, 2005. The Regional Parliament in Barcelona has approved a new Statute with 120 votes in favour and 15 against. From the economical point of view, wealthy Catalonia is the most important province in Spain. The Statute begins with the very interesting motto: »Catalonia is a nation...« In this province Catalonian is the official language and Spanish is in second place. The Statute must now be debated by the Federal Parliament in Madrid, who may approve or reject it. Will they dare to do so? |
| The people of Catalonia and of Basque, another Spanish province, paid attention to the happenings in Slovenia toward the end of the 80s. At that time, Slovenians were in the process to proclaim their independence from Yugoslavia, which occurred in 1991. Then, Slovenia asked for international recognition, because it was under pressure of the Yugoslav army. One of the States opposing recognition was Spain. Thus, Madrid was evidently afraid that the Slovenian independence movement would set an example for Catalonia. Anyway, if in these provinces was (or still is) a strong tendency for independence, then this was not initiated by Slovenia but by the Madrid centralistic regime of many years. How the future will unfold, will be decided by the Catalonian people themselves. Apart from this, Slovenians will be looking forward for a more intensive cultural and economical collaboration between the two nations. |
| Signature withheld |
| October 9, 2005 |
| Slovenian language under foreign influence |
| Now that the referendum of the new law on RTV Slovenia was passed, I would like to address a question, which was not discussed during the referendum campaign. This time the subject matter is the proper use of the Slovenian language, nuances and syntax. Frequently the announcers are incapable of speaking standard Slovenian. They are not able to observe the proper Slovenian pronunciation of phonetics and accents. It is evident that they neglected their Slovenian mother tongue since elementary school. As broadcasters and media professionals they lack of formal training in pronunciation. Besides, in their presentation of material for the news the Slovenian grammar rules are not observed at all. This must be still a legacy of the ex Yugoslav regime, when the underground insinuated Serbian etymons into Slovenian, in order to create a »Yugoslav« language. As a matter of fact, the editorial staff of »RTV Slovenia«, among other things, is not capable to recognize the genitive in the negation of the verb and the very frequent use of the dual in Slovenian language (these rules do not exist in Serbian). This is in particular noticeable when the meaning of Slovenian etymons is frequently exchanged with similar ones in Serbian language. For example: in Serbian »birati« (to elect), in Slovenian with a prefix »iz-birati« and »iz-brati« (to choose). After an election the Slovenian television reports that the people have »izbiral« (chosen) instead of »volil« (elected) the new candidates. Another example: the broadcasters are not able to distinguish between »misliti« (to think) and »razmišljati« (to consider, to think about) and »premišljevati« (to meditate, to contemplate). In all cases they use the word »razmišljajo« (consider), etc. This is a sign that the Serbianization of the language and in the thinking of Slovenians is continuing. The case of Milan Zver, Minister of Education of the Jansa government, is still fresh in our memory, and as it seems he will not be able to make any changes in this regard. |
| Signature withheld |
| (cf: How to destroy the Slovenian language? dated October 25, 2005) |
| October 4, 2005 |
| Do Slovenians want Serbian language in their schools? |
| As reported by the mass media, Milan Zver, the Slovenian Minister of Education, went to Belgrade (Serbia) on September 18th of this year for a meeting with the Serbian Minister of Education, Slobodan Vuksanovic. One of the main topics of discussion was the introduction of Serbian language into the Slovenian elementary school system, as well as the "basic" teaching of Slovenian in Serbian schools. This apparently was the purpose of his official visit to Serbia. After the meeting both ministers also closely examined basketball at the collegiate level. |
| The exchange of visits between ministers of education in the world of diplomacy is a rarity. In this connection, one has to ask oneself, who authorized Milan Zver to have negotiations with Serbia? Will he sign illegal agreements behind the back of the Slovenian public? Slovenians suffered in the hands of the Serbian army and secret service for a long time. Even the previous government of liberals and neo-communists did not dare to provoke the Slovenian public with such kind of "encounters". Was Milan Zver forced to go to Belgrade? Forced by whom? By the Serbian lobby in Slovenia, which, as it seems, already holds the control over the Jansa government and its ministries? The patience of the Slovenian people has its limits! |
| Borut Potocar, Ljubljana |
| (cf: How to destroy the Slovenian language? dated October 25, 2005) |
| September 28, 2005 |
| Letter from our reader re: RTV SLO Referendum |
| Dear Carantha Editors, |
| The Slovenian people have demonstrated once again that they will NOT tolerate being treated as fools. For many years the communists and their sympathisers in the media and intellectual circles have treated the Slovenian public with contempt and with absolutely no respect for their opinions. They attempted the same old tactics again with the referendum on the RTV SLO laws and paid the ultimate price, failure. |
| Peter Jama |
| Australia |
| *** |
| September 14, 2005 |
| Formal freedom of expression |
| In Sovenia it seems to be evident that the formal freedom of expression has been unmasked at last by the Black Panther affair. It is no secret that the mass media, which still today is under pressure of its ancient masters, avoids publishing the Black Panther sign. Comparing the situation in Carinthia to Slovenia, it is true that the atmosphere there is not favourable towards Slovenians. However, in contrast to that, in Slovenia nobody can use the mass media to voice their opinion on issues of intimidation of the public mind. They neither can express their ideas about the Black Panther sign. Already at the threshold of the independence of Slovenia, if I remember correctly, the daily Kärntner Nachrichten (Klagenfurt) reported about a proposal, in the sense of which the Black Panther would become the coat of arms of the new Slovenia. The article also stressed that the Panther is the ancient arms of Carantania. It was at the time when in Slovenia the »declaration« of a group of professors went into circulation. |
| Manfred Kar |
| (cf: Under the Black Panther Flag, articele: The Black Panther Fashion in Slovenia) |
| (cf: Under the Black Panther Flag, article: Is Slovenia undergoin the Black Panther revolution) |
| September 11, 2005 |
| Hello, |
| Josef Kraßler describes in his book "Steirischer Wappenschlüssel", page 151, the coat of arms of the Stermole family, without providing an illustration. Please inform me in which library or books I could find a picture of my family coat of arms for my genealogical research. I assume that a picture exists in Bartsch' works. Any help you can offer will be appreciated. Thanking you in advance I remain with best regards your |
| Claudia Stermole-Werner. |
| Dear Claudia Stermole-Werner! |
| Dr. Savli could not find the coat of arms of the Stermoles in the Steiermärkischen Wappenbuch 1567 (Faksimilausgabe von J. Zahn und A. Anthony von Siegenfeld). He reconstructed the original arms from the description by Josef Kaßler, which you so kindly had submitted to us. An illustration is attached. |
| (cf: Our Castles Part I, article Castle Strmol) |
 |
| coat of arms of the Stermol (Strmol) |
| September 6, 2005 |
| Zasledil sem cudno zgodbo o bivsi teroristicni organizaciji Crna roka imenovani tudi Enotnost ali Smrt, ki je bila ustanovljena leta 1911 v Beogradu. Korenine te organizacije segajo dlje nazaj v zgodovino in imajo za podlago pan-srbski nacionalizem. |
| Delovanje te tajne organizacije je bilo znano po tem, da so politicne nasprotnike morili. Med drugimi tudi predstolonaslednika Ferdinanda v Sarajevu. Zelo poucna je njihova ustanovna listina, kjer je omenjena tudi delegacija za Slovenijo. |
| Nejasno je, da dasiravno je bila organizacija ukinjena leta 1917, nekateri viri omenjajo delovanje organizacije tudi se v letu 1941 v povezavi s Sovjetsko zvezo. Nekateri viri pa govorijo o Crni roki tudi kot o povojni emigrantski organizaciji ustasev. |
| Poraja se mi vprasanje ali je imela ta organizacija kako delovanje tudi v Sloveniji in kdo so bili domnevni clani? Ali je kaka povezava med dogodki l. 1919 v Sloveniji in to organizacijo? Ali je mozno, da je bila Crna roka, ki se omenja v zvezi z domobranstvom v WW2, tudi del srbske Crne roke? Ali je ta povezava poznana, ali lahko govorimo o dveh neodvisnih organizacijah? |
| Morda vi veste kaj vec o tem. |
| (signature withheld) |
| Prilagam dva linka na to temo: |
| http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comment/blk-hand.html |
| http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/eckh/eckh01.htm |
| August 25, 2005 |
| A Carinthian retrospective analysis |
| It is true that in Carinthia after the Second World War, for many decades the public mind was misled by opinion makers. The opinion terror ruling society made it almost impossible for the every-day German speaking man on the street to express his opinion. People, who voiced their discontent on issues not standing in compliance with the government, had to carry the consequences. Perhaps the Church was also involved in the anti-Slovenian agitation. At the beginning of the 60s, Slovenian Carinthian priests, facing numerous discriminations, were constrained to present a memorandum against Josef Kadras, the general vicar of the Diocese Gurk (Klagenfurt). I still remember the report in a Vienna paper, written in an amusing tone. - In 1967, a special commemoration was held for the anniversary of the death of St. Modestus († 767), Apostle of the Carantanians (Slovenians). For this occasion numerous pilgrims from Slovenia walked the pilgrimage to the Apostle's grave at the cathedral of Gospa Sveta (Maria Saal). This event alarmed the Carinthian press and they immediately began to attack Slovenian pilgrims. Therefore, the provincial government in Ljubljana, in fact on directives of Belgrade, stopped the pilgrimages out of fear to risk »good neighbourly relations with Carinthia«. This case is only one example caused by the opinion terror makers, who hinted at a new Slovenian »invasion«. - The repeat of such a play happened in 1988 when Pope John Paul II visited the grave of St. Emma in Gurk (Krka). At this occasion, large crowds of pilgrims came also from Slovenia to Gurk, and the Carinthian press, once again, started to attack Slovenians. They allegedly disturbed the peace in Carinhia. The Bishop of Klagenfurt, Egon Kapellari, in his ignorance of misjudging the real situation, complained about Slovenian pilgrims in an open letter to Alojzij Šuštar, the Archbishop of Ljubljana. However, the latter publicly rejected the complaint in the religious paper Družina (Lublana). - Such plays were manoeuvred between the confidants of the Austrian and ex-Yugoslav secret services, who always found a common platform on anti-Slovenian affairs. After the declaration of independence of Slovenia, it came to daylight, that under Yugoslavia, Ljubljana tourist offices were forbidden to mention in their Carinthian excursion packages the sites of the cathedral Maria Saal (Gospa Sveta) and Karnburg (Krnski grad), the cultural historical places of Carantanian history. Evidently, this happened in the sense of a secret agreement between Vienna and Belgrade. Such was the true role played by »fraternal« Belgrade, which presented itself as the »protector« of Slovenians against constant (?) German expansionism. - When Emperor Carl passed away he uttered in his last moments: I had to sacrifice so much so that my nations will re-unite again! His message, in spite of secret service activities, begins to take shape. |
| Signature withheld |
| (cf: Alpe-Adria, article: Is this the new image of Carinthia?) |
| August 25, 2005 |
| Comment on: The Fatal Year 1919 |
| The 1919 Maribor events become an important witness of the strong political intentions, which Belgrade had carried out in Slovenia right from the beginning. In 1945, the same situation repeated itself. Albert Svetina provides among other things proof and evidence of these happenings in his book Od osvobodilnega boja do banditizma /From Liberation Figth to Brigantism/p. 201 (cf: Testifying of an Udba man): Together with the IV Yugoslav Army enormous soldiery came from the southern parts of Yugoslavia and flooded Slovenia. The soldiers were doing what they wanted. There is no question that they occupied Slovenia... They behaved as occupying forces. They grabbed everything that was not tied down and carried it away... They dissolved the Slovenian Partisan Army as meaningless.... The partisan detachments... were subordinated to the Serbian command of the Yugoslav army... Without objection Slovenians had to subordinate to the new dictatorship from the south... Upon disapproval of the dissolution of the partisan army, the Yugoslav army commented with arguments like this one: ... but we have liberated you (from German occupation)... - Yugoslavia always represented a Serbian occupation of Slovenia. After the WW2, this occupation was skilfully hidden under the Tito image. It is true, that the present-day Slovenian historians should have already investigated this situation. But evidently it is still a »hot potato«. In this connection, the bombastic announcement of future publications on Slovenian history can only be regarded as a repeated bluff to the Slovenian public, as it has always been. It is probably simply all about money laundering. |
| (Signature withheld) |
| (cf: The aftermath of war in Slovenia, article: The Fatal Year 1919) |
| *** |
| August 18, 2005 |
| Spostovano urednistvo Knjiznih listov, |
| Objavili ste 17.08. skoraj cele 3 strani dolg clanek pod zgornjim naslovom, ki ga je podpisal neki gospod Gabric. Po logiki in vsebini clanka najverjetneje doktor ali pa vsaj magister kaksne izmed priznanih slovenskih znanosti. Ne samo,da se primitivno in strupeno obrega ob zgodovinska dejstva o ustolicevanju karantanskih knezov in o sami slovenski drzavi Karantaniji - nesramno tudi omenja predsednika ZDA , ki po njegovem ne ve, kaj je govoril med svojim obiskom v Ljubljani. To je nesramno zasramovanje institucije predsednika ZDA na predpostavki, da so tudi v Washingtonu drzavni uradniki enaki idioti kot je srenja slovenskih "uradnih" zgodovinarjev. Morda bi imenovani g. Gabric o slovenski zgodovini vedel kaj vec, ce bi se solal na kaksni ameriski univerzi. |
| Sicer pa - leta 2000 je g. Milan Vogel zapisal, da je bil Ziga Herberstein Nemec, na kar je moral pismeno reagirati potomec gospod Jurij Herberstein. Kaj ne bi sla vasa cela redakcija raje pisat nocne kronike ali pa kaksna porocila z gasilskih veselic. |
| S spostovanjem |
| Milan V. Smolej |
| Finska |
| August 14, 2005 |
| Re: Zgodovina, kakršne še nismo imeli |
| Spoštovani, |
| morda ste ali pa tudi niste opazili clanka v Delu z dne 11.8., kjer se potuhnjeno govori, kako bodo naši poznani hlapcevski "zgodovinarji" zaceli pisati novo slovensko zgodovino. Prav zanimivo bo, kako se bodo lotili tem o naseljevanju Slovencev in o nasi državotvornosti. Na kup so se zbrali prav vsi poznani in manj poznani zadrti in arogantni pisci, ki že vec kot desetletje zlivajo gnojnico na "alternativne" slovenske zgodovinarje: dr. Savlija, patra Tomažica in seveda ranjkega Mateja Bora - da Verbovška, Žunica, Tume in drugih niti ne omenjamo. |
| Milan Smolej |
| Finska |
| Clani skupine za program Slovenska zgodovina pišejo sintezo v petih knjigah, od katerih bo vsaka obsegala okoli 500 strani. Gre za vec kakor dve tisocletji zgodovine današnjega slovenskega etnicnega ozemlja od 2. stoletja pr. n. št. do okoli leta 2000, število sodelujocih pa se je s prvotnih enajst povecalo na sedanjih devetnajst raziskovalcev. Po zasnovi bo to nova sinteza celotne slovenske zgodovine, kakršna v primerljivem obsegu še ni bila napisana. Projekt po besedah nosilca programske skupine profesorja dr. Rajka Bratoža zajema pet kronoloških in vsebinskih podrocij, ki so glede na število raziskovalcev zastopana precej heterogeno. To so anticna doba z enim raziskovalcem, srednjeveško obdobje s tremi raziskovalci, novi vek s tremi raziskovalci ter 19. stoletje in 20. stoletje s po šestimi raziskovalci. |
| Anticno obdobje bo zajelo kakih osem stoletij, od zacetkov rimskega prodiranja v severovzhodno zaledje Jadrana do propada anticnih struktur nekje okoli leta 600 n. št. Kot vecja znanstvena sinteza bo predstavljeno prvic. Delo bo temeljilo na obširnih zgodovinskih prikazih prof. Rajka Bratoža in dr. Marjete Šašel Kos ter krajših, vendar nujnih prispevkih strokovnjakov za provincialno arheologijo in numizmatiko (Slavko Ciglenecki, Jana Horvat, numizmatik prof. dr. Peter Kos). Ob politicni, upravni in vojaški zgodovini, ki so najbolje znane, bo precejšen poudarek na poselitveni in kulturni zgodovini. Pri tem bo nujen prikaz ne le lokalne zgodovine ozemlja, ki ni bilo nikdar zajeto v eno politicno-upravno celoto, temvec tudi procesov in dogodkov širše regionalne ter v posameznih primerih tudi evropske zgodovine. |
| Srednjeveško obdobje, za katero obstajajo starejše znanstvene sinteze (Milko Kos, Bogo Grafenauer), bo zajelo osem in pol stoletij od približno leta 600 do zacetka turških vpadov in splošne krize v drugi polovici 14. stoletja. Celotno delo bo napisal prof. dr. Peter Štih sam. V sintezi bodo izraženi novi pogledi na zgodnjesrednjeveške etnogeneze, državnopravno ureditev in družbeno strukturo. Pregled bo, enakomerneje kakor v starejših sintezah, zajel vse družbene, etnicne in kulturne plasti prebivalstva. |
| Pri zgodovini novega veka bo šlo za nekaj vec kakor tri stoletja, od poznega srednjega veka (okoli 1460) do cesarice Marije Terezije (1780). Poleg glavnega avtorja prof. dr. Vaska Simonitija bosta sodelovala doc. dr. Marko Štuhec in dr. Sašo Jerše. Temu obdobju je bilo doslej posvecenih manj zgodovinskih sintez kakor srednjemu veku. |
| V cetrtem zvezku bo predstavljeno 140-letno obdobje od smrti Marije Terezije (1780) do propada avstro-ogrske monarhije po prvi svetovni vojni (1918). Glavni avtor bo prof. dr. Janez Cvirn, z daljšimi prispevki oziroma integralnimi prikazi posameznih casovnih odsekov pa bodo sodelovali še prof. dr. Marta Verginella za prvo polovico 19. stoletja, prof. dr. Walter Lukan za prvo svetovno vojno ter dr. Rok Stergar za posamezne vidike socialne in vojaške zgodovine. Novejše raziskave na Slovenskem in v sosedstvu, ki bodo upoštevane v sintezi, se nanašajo zlasti na kulturno zgodovino, mednacionalne spore v habsburški monarhiji in na prvo svetovno vojno. |
| Peti zvezek Slovenske zgodovine bo zajel vec kakor 80-letno obdobje od konca prve svetovne vojne do okoli leta 2000. Glavna avtorja bosta prof. dr. Dušan Necak in prof. dr. Božo Repe, izbrane teme pa bodo pripravili še prof. dr. Miroslav Stiplovšek, doc. dr. Mitja Ferenc, doc. dr. Bojan Balkovec in doc. dr. Danijela Trškan. V tem casovnem okviru bo pomembna novost sinteza zgodovine druge polovice 20. stoletja, ki bo obravnavala tudi prvo desetletje obstoja samostojne slovenske države. |
| Zbirka naj bi ob kriticnem sprejemanju rezultatov starejših raziskav kar najbolj upoštevala nedavna spoznanja, ki izhajajo iz novega koncepta zgodovine (znatno modificiranje »nacionalne« zgodovine, opustitev v znanosti preseženih ideologemov, nazorska nevtralnost), in dala vecji poudarek tistim temam, ki so bile v starejših delih sicer že upoštevane (družbena in gospodarska zgodovina, zgodovina državnih struktur, zgodovina kulture in religije, temeljne prvine vsakdanjega življenja), vendar so danes precej bolje raziskane. Cilj projekta je nova sodobna zgodovinska sinteza srednje velikega obsega (okoli 2500 strani), ki naj bo referencno delo za raziskovalce, študijsko gradivo na univerzi (zlasti pri podiplomskem in doktorskem študiju) ter zanesljiv vir informacij za izobražence in raziskovalce s podrocja drugih ved. |
| Projekt se razlikuje od starejših podobnih poskusov, ki niso bili dokoncani (na primer Grafenauerjeva Zgodovina slovenskega naroda I-V in, v okviru Gospodarske in družbene zgodovine Slovencev I-II, 1970-80, doslej le Zgodovina agrarnih panog). Zaznati je predvsem dve razliki, in sicer v casovnem okviru, saj je vanj v celoti vkljuceno anticno obdobje, ki je dobilo svoje samostojno mesto in nima vec vloge zgolj nekakšnega uvoda v zgodovinsko sintezo poznejših obdobij, pa tudi v zasnovi, saj po vsebini to ne bo »zgodovina slovenskega naroda« ali »zgodovina Slovencev«, temvec »slovenska zgodovina«, torej zgodovina ljudstev in civilizacij na ozemlju, ki nosi danes slovensko identiteto ali je ta na njem vsaj opazno navzoca. |
| Sledi nekaj novosti, zdaj predvidljivih na podlagi dosedanjih objav. Pri anticni dobi bodo - ob bistveno vecjem obsegu - enakomerno zastopana vsa obdobja (rimska zasedba, zgodnja in visoka cesarska doba, pozna antika in preseljevanje narodov, torej cas od 2. in 1. stoletja pr. n. št. do sklepnega dela 6. st.); velik poudarek bo tudi na poselitveni in kulturni zgodovini, ki pretežno temeljita na arheoloških raziskavah. Pri srednjeveški zgodovini bo predvidena novost drugacen pogled na zgodnjesrednjeveške etnogeneze ter na državnopravno ureditev in družbeno strukturo; za srednji in za novi vek bodo vkljucena pomembna spoznanja iz zgodovine plemiških družin in vsakdanjega življenja vseh plasti prebivalstva. Pri zgodovini 19. stoletja lahko pricakujemo številne novosti pri osvetlitvi mednacionalnih spopadov in kulturne zgodovine. Pri zgodovini 20. stoletja bo pomembna novost drugacen prikaz obdobja po drugi svetovni vojni, zlasti pa sinteza zgodovine zatona Jugoslavije in prvega desetletja slovenske države. |
| Vsekakor bo prizadevanje raziskovalne skupine usmerjeno v to, da bi bili iz zgodovinske podobe tega prostora in casa izloceni danes preseženi pogledi. Oznaka »zgodovinski mit« je zanje samo deloma ustrezna. Vecinoma gre za specificne predstave posameznih obdobij v razvoju zgodovinskih predstav in zgodovinske znanosti, ki so bile sprejete kot splošno veljavne. Zdi se, da so bolj kakor pravi zgodovinski miti trdožive napacne ali v znanosti presežene predstave ali trditve, ki se v zgodovinski znanstveni publicistiki vse bolj opušcajo, bolj pa se držijo v poljudnih in šolskih besedilih. |
| Zasnova slovenske zgodovine, ki hkrati vsebuje prvine nacionalne in regionalno »transnacionalne« zgodovine, po Bratoževih besedah ni preživeta ali celo »kontraproduktivna«, kakor se je o konceptu agresivno nacionalne zgodovine po pravici izrazil pokojni zgodovinar Andreas Moritsch. Na to kažejo posamezni uspešni projekti v sosešcini (na primer Avstrijska zgodovina v desetih (z dodatki dvanajstih) zvezkih, izdanih v letih 1995-2002). Tri do štiri desetletja po predhodnih velikih in žal nedokoncanih sintezah so vsekakor dovolj dolga doba, da je smiselno znova pregledati in urediti celotno znanje ter dati celoti novo vsebinsko podobo. Tudi pri sinteticno zasnovanih projektih velikih evropskih in svetovnih historiografij (na primer angleško-ameriške, francoske, nemške in italijanske) so 30 do 50 let po predhodnih velikih sintezah nastale ali pa so v sklepni fazi nove velike sinteze. Slednje prinašajo ne le novo znanje, temvec so tudi po zasnovi drugacne od starejših del: v splošnem vsebujejo manj politicne in dogodkovne zgodovine, zato pa so dosti bolj zastopane družbena in gospodarska zgodovina, zgodovina državnih struktur, zgodovina kulture in religije, temeljne prvine vsakdanjega življenja itd. |
| Bibliografija raziskovalne skupine je po štirih letih obsežna, za nekatere vsebinske sklope celo zelo obsežna (kak ducat knjig, nekaj sto raziskovalnih clankov). Tudi njena vkljucenost v mednarodno znanost se zdi primerna, saj se delež v tujini objavljenih znanstvenih prispevkov približuje eni tretjini objav. |
| Pisanje zgodovinske sinteze je danes zaradi hitrega razvoja znanosti in zato izredno velike znanstvene tvornosti seveda zahtevno in naporno. Samo študija srednjega obsega, na primer o anticni regionalni zgodovini, predvideva obvladovanje znanstvene bibliografije v obsegu 500 do 1000 naslovov, za novejša obdobja pa je to število še precej vecje. Težava je tudi neenakomerna zastopanost po posameznih obdobjih; za antiko, srednji in novi vek sloni delo predvsem ali v celoti na enem raziskovalcu, zgodovina 19. in 20. stoletja pa sta v tem smislu bolje pokriti. Raziskovalci so tudi univerzitetni ucitelji, v vec primerih z mnogimi pedagoškimi in organizacijskimi obveznostmi. Deideologizacija zgodovine, ki je nujni pogoj za objektivno sliko zgodovinskih procesov in približevanje zgodovinski resnici, je eno pomembnih, ce že ne osrednjih vprašanj zgodovinske znanosti sploh. Glede anticne zgodovine, še precej bolj pa glede 20. stoletja, v naši javnosti ni enotne sodbe o kljucnih dogajanjih ali zgodovinskih procesih. V sedanjem trenutku je pot do zakljucka po mnenju prof. Rajka Bratoža še dolga. Veliko bo treba storiti na organizacijskem in tehnicnem podrocju: poiskati založnika, priti do enotne redakcijsko-tehnicne zasnove, urediti vprašanje objave ilustracij itd. T. Š. |
| July 25, 2005 |
| Dear Carantha Editors, |
| It is interesting to note that the Slovenian word for German is "nemec" or "nemc" which literally translates to "the dumb ones". Infact, it is derived from the Slovenian word "nem" which means "dumb, mute or speechless" while the Slovenian word "nemoc" which is also derived from the word "nem", means "weakness, powerlessness, incompetence or impotence". |
| The origins of the word "nemec" has something to do with the fact that the Germanic tribes of Europe were essentially uncivilised barbarians. What is truly ironic is that the Germans and Austrians have tried to compensate for this fact by historically claiming or insinuating through books and literature that they are "superior" and more civilised than Slovenians and Jews. |
| Now that is laughable. |
| Civilised people don't destroy other peoples language and culture, they don't murder 6 million Jews including Slovenians and they don't send people to concentration camps. |
| (signature withheld) |
| Carantha editors' comments on a letter about the word "nemec": |
| 1st Comment: |
| Regretfully, your letter is somewhat one-sided. Anyway, it touches on a great problem. Therefore, we take this opportunity to answer in order to clear some mistakes, which could also be of interest to a broader audience. Firstly, the word "nem" really means dumb in Slovenian and in Slav languages. If the Germans have always been called "Nemci" by the Slav people, this does not mean, that they could not speak. They were called so, because their Slavic speaking neighbours did not understand them. Secondly, in the letter you are using the expression "uncivilised barbarians", referring to German tribes of Europe. The Greeks used the word "barbarians" for non-Greek peoples. Since the 19th century AD, it has been misused by nationalistic and chauvinistic movements, in particular by Italian and German ones, as to denigrate the neighbouring nations and to justify their possible (and later actual) occupation. At the end of the WW2 these forces were defeated. |
| Nevertheless, it is true, that some remainders have survived until this very day. They are recharging themselves with national and nationalistic ideologies, that the aforesaid movements had produced and published in great quantities. It is about nostalgia and expressing a way of mind. In Germany, it is true, this nostalgia is scarcely found. In Austria, however, it is very perceivable in the academic world and in the public mind, created by the mass media. There, the ancient academic lies, in order to degrade the Slav peoples, are continuously repeated. In this connection, we already drew attention to the alleged "Celtic" origin of Noricum, to the invasion of the "Slavs" and their "Avarian" domination in early Carantania, and so on. In this case it is not about a spontaneous phenomenon, because the Austrian people are generous and polite. It is about the false "Meinungsmacher" (public-opinion-makers) financed for this purpose. They evidently are working against the multinational tradition of Austria. Not Austria as such is important, but Middle Europe, which, because of its natural position, could became again the centre of Europe's future. Regretfully, these occult powers are shaping the general mind in Austria. Its secret service Cobra cannot be unaware of this. |
| Thirdly, you say: Civilized people don't destroy other peoples' language and culture... - From our above exposed explanation you can come to the right conclusion. Thus, it is not about "people" but about regimes. For example, would you condemn the Russian people because of the Communist ideology and movement which started in Russia? Or the Serbian people, because of the great-Serbian expansionism and Yugoslav Communism, carried out by Belgrade? Or Italian and German people, because of Fascism and Nazism? Or English, French and other peoples, because of colonialism? And so on. After their deeds... |
| 2nd Comment: |
| It is surprising how easy it is for you to accept that the Slovenian word “Nemec or Nemc” translates as “the dumb ones”. You will find that also in other languages the Germans are known by the same name. The Czech name for Germany means literally “dumb” (in the sense of mute or unable to speak, not stupid.) This is also true for other Slavic languages. The same meaning has the word “tedesco”, in Italian language. Not one of these countries persecuted Jewish people. Your letter should be addressed to Nazi organizations and not to Carantha, which strives to present true history of Slovenia. This task is not easy, because, even history is politically influenced by surrounding countries, like Austria, Germany, Italy and Serbia, etc. Slovenia is now part of the European Union. |
| *** |
| July 16, 2005 |
| Comments on: Letter from a reader about partisans and home-guardians, published in Družina |
| The readers' letters section published in the religious weekly Družina (Lublana) seems to be a cheap way to bring discord among the Slovenian people. Under the pretext of free expression, the paper also published letters with provocative contents. They evidently are launched by the confidants of the ex-Yugoslav secret-service network, to profit from the confidence and loyalty that people have in the »religious« paper. It is always the same »story«. Two trends are confronting each other: during the WW2 in Slovenia, we had the partisans on one side and the home-guardians on the other. |
| In this respect, a »letter« from Belgrade, published on July 10, 2005, is fuelling the fire in such a discord of opinions. Its author, it is true, defends the home-guardians from constant accusations of »collaboration« (with Italian and German occupying forces). This is correct! However, at the same time he attacks in a dishonest way the partisans by saying among other things: The very collaborationists were the partisans, allies of Stalinism, Bolshevism, Communism. Many Slovenian boys, full of idealism, entered the partisan formations. But they had no presentiment of what was hidden under the red star. They were carefully adapted, until their soul was »killed«... |
| The »author«, it is true, is generalising the problem. At the same time, when he speaks of »many« Slovenian boys, he is attacking the partisans in general. The tactics are evident: he decides to introduce a lie in the otherwise serious letter! The publication of this letter in a respectful »religious« paper should be enough guarantee for the correctness of its contents. However, the truth about the partisans is somewhat different. |
| Indeed, during the WW2, thousands of Slovenian boys and men went to the partisans ready to fight for a free Slovenia. At first they were unaware of the Communist terror, to which they were exposed. For them, the free Slovenia meant the Slovenian State. But this State, it is true, was not clearly individuated in their imagination. In the sense of the pan-Slav and yugo-Slav ideology, which prevailed at that time, they rather conceived it amidst a community of »fraternal« Slav peoples. In this way, Slovenians should have been secured from German and Italian expansionism. |
| The Communist Party, it is true, usurped during the WW2 the leadership of the liberation fights in Slovenia. The Communists (attached to Stalin and his Comintern), in view of the Communist revolution, carried out terror attacks not only on civilians but also on the same partisans. Moreover, numerous partisans were »liquidated« (slaughtered) by the Communist security service called Vos. Thus, because their principles were too patriotic, too democratic and religious, which would have presented an obstacle for a successful Communist revolution. |
| How many partisans have been »liquidated«? Thousands? Several years (!?) after Slovenia's independence, when victims, who were killed during and after the WW2, began to be registered, one ascertained ca. 100.000 deaths. The number of »liquidated« partisans among the death toll was not specially individuated. They were simply part of the »fallen«. Why? |
| Among the partisans, who lost their life, were many clever boys, sincere Slovenian patriots, energetic, intelligent and courageous fighters. I quote only some names: commander Franc Rozman - Stane, poet Karel Destovnik - Kajuh, politician Jože Srebrnic, many anti-Fascist fighters from Littoral like Janko Premrl - Vojko, Danilo Zelen, Ferdo Kravanja - Skalar, Maks Rejec... Evidently, they were not persuaded by the Slav »fraternity«, by Stalin's image, the »daddy« of all Slavs, and so on. Behind the ideological slogans they clearly recognized the great-Russian and the great-Serbian expansionism. They imagined the Slovenian State as an independent Slovenia, and they knew that the above mentioned expansionistic forces would have prevented this aim. In order to realize the dream of an independent Slovenia, some of them searched and also formed connections with the Western allies. |
| It was a direct opposition to the Communist leadership, its attachment to Stalin and its plan of the Communist world revolution, behind which the Russian - Serbian expansionism was covered. Evidently, this was the reason why so many outstanding Slovenian boys became victims of very unusual incidents. I think, these incidents were pre-organized by Vos, the above-mentioned security service. |
| Some years after the WW2, the crosses were still standing on the graves of the fallen partisans. Then, the Yugoslav regime had them all removed. Cemeteries were levelled, and the graves were covered with grass seed and some flowers. The names of the fallen were engraved on a common monument with an obligatory red star. It was a barbarian gesture of the Yugoslav regime toward the deceased. The regime wrongly presented the fallen as Communists, which they were not. They were Christians. Out of honesty and compassion a Mess should be celebrated from time to time in their memory. |
| Today's independent Slovenia, of which the partisans had dreamed, is now realizing that so many of them were »liquidated« and had fallen in vain. This same dream was also in the mind of the home-guardians. Evidently, the author of the »letter« ignores the idea of an independent Slovenia, and therewith he betrays himself. Thus, not by a religious papers but by their deeds you will know them! |
| Matjaž Peterka |
| Cerkev na zatožni klopi |
| (Church on the accusiation bench) |
 |
| Cerkev na zatožni klopi (Church on the accusation bench) is the title of an ample work recently published in the Slovenian church weekly Družina (Lublana, 2005), and written by the female historian Dr. Tamara Griesser - Pecar. The authoress is dealing with the terror, which after the Second World War the Yugoslav Communist regime initiated against the Catholic Church and its faithful in Slovenia. As established by the authoress, until 1960 the regime had persecuted and threatened with penal proceedings no less than 429 Catholic priests. The death sentence was pronounced nine times, and also was carried out in four cases. Dr. Tamara Griesser - Pecar examined the documents in the archives of Lublana, Maribor, Celje, Murska Sobota and Nova Gorica. A horrible thing! |
| The persecutions, it is true, were carried out by the Slovenian Department of Ozna, the Yugoslav secret service. Anyway, the directives could have come only from Belgrade. But the archives there are not accessible to the public. Therefore, the authoress could not study the corresponding documents kept in Belgrade. Regretfully, she did not touch this problem in her work. This way, it creates the misleading image, that Slovenia was an independent State after the WW2. One gets the impression, that Belgrade was not in control of Slovenia, and that the leading class there was not aware of what was happening. Really? |
| Further on, the authoress dedicates special attention to the criminal procedure against Dr. Gregorij Rožman, the Bishop of Lublana. At the end of the WW2, Dr. Gregorij Rožman, together with many thousands of Slovenians, sought refuge in Carinthia (Austria). So, the verdict against him was carried out in his absence. Because of »high treason«, the Military Court condemned him to 18 years arrest (forced labour). The authoress further says, that the Military Court in Lublana had no competence to deal with the judgement without the provision of the Supreme Military Court (in Belgrade). But such an opinion is very doubtful. Why did the military court sentence him and not the civilian one? |
| Anyway, after the declaration of independence of Slovenia, the proceedings for revision of judgement in the case Rožman were opened also. But the Public Prosecutor of Slovenia, Dr. Anton Drobnic, did not consider valid the argument of non-competence of the Military Court, and in 1997 the renewal of the process was rejected. The reason, because in the underground the structures of the one-time Yugoslav regime continued to control Slovenia through their confidants. |
| It is true, the condemnation of Dr. Gregorij Rožman, the Bishop of Lublana, had and still has a high political and ideological connotation. At the same time, it should also present the condemnation of the Catholic Church for committed »crimes« and »high treason« on the Slovenian people. In Slovenia (Yugoslavia), in the post-war period, the sentencing of Dr. Geregorij Rožman represented an important element in the anti-religious propaganda, carried out by the Communist regime. In this way, in particular in the eyes of the young people, the regime scandalized not only the Church but also the Faith as such, directing the youth toward atheism. Indeed, their efforts did not remain without success! |
| July 5, 2005 |
| The Freising Manuscripts |
| (http://www.kortlandt.nl/editions/freis.html) |
| Spoštovani. |
| Med brskanjem sem našel gornjo stran, kjer so zapisani v elektronski, obliki Brižinski spomeniki (The Freising Manuscripts). Ne vem, ali je to celoten prepis slovenskega dela teksta ali le odlomek. Zanimivo je, da sem uspel razbrati veliko besedila, cetudi je zapis star celo tisocletje. |
| Lep pozdrav, |
| Dejan Flasker, Nizozemska |
| Carantha comments on Monumenta Frisingensia: |
| Click on Science and Literature, read article: Monumenta Frisingensia |
| In the electronic transcription, to which you drew our attention, appears the entire text of the Monumenta Frisingensia (Brižinski spomeniki, ca 970 AD). The editor's opening statement in his introduction is disturbing: The canonical edition by Pogacnik (1968) has now been superseded by the SAZU edition (1993). In fact, it has not been replaced at all. The edition issued by SAZU (Slovenian Academy), it is true, omitted Pogacnik's comparison between Monumenta Frisingensia and the Latin text called Quod enim in psalmis non inventure, found in the same fascicle. Why? As it is known, the Monumenta are transcriptions of older texts, that have been lost. Anyway, Prof. Jože Pogacnik's comparison with the Latin text, which is exactly of the same construction, shows that the Monumenta originals go back into the Late Antique. This is the period before the supposedly arrival of the Slavs in the Eastern Alps (after 568 AD), which has not been documented in the records. Thus, this is another proof that the Slovenians were the autochthon people in this territory. Evidently, the Yugoslav lobby (Serbian Academy?), who is controlling SAZU (Slovenian Academy), did not permit to mention the aforesaid Pogacnik comparison study, which has been omitted in the SAZU edition. |
| The discoveries of Prof. Pogacnik were known to many people since 1967, when Dr. Trofenik (Munich) published the book of the Monumenta Frisingensia in German language. The Slovenian edition, as well as the Slovenian media never introduced these discoveries to the Slovenian public. The right time certainly has come to reveal the truth to the Slovenian people. |
| July 2, 2005 |
| Družina: Comments on an article written by a group from Koper. |
| A group from Koper published an article in the May 2005 issue of the religious weekly Družina (Lublana) entitled »Littoral's Contribution to Reconciliation« (Primorski prispevek k spravi). - The word »reconciliation« means more or less an amicable settlement in the field of ideology, which had divided Slovenians into two parts during the WW2: on the one side the partisans (under the granted leadership of the Communist Party) and on the other the home guards, (led by a kind of anti-Communist coalition). Both factions were fighting each other. Such were the circumstances only in Carniola, but not in the entire Slovenian territory. As to sow discord among the Slovenian people (supported in the background by Belgrade's secret service), this question was debated on the national level in Slovenia. |
| During the WW2, the anti-Communist part of Slovenians was first under the protection of Italian and thereafter under German occupational forces. Therefore, in the post-war period, these same people were intentionally and continuously scolded as »traitors« by the speaking voices of the Yugoslav Communist regime. Of course, in this campaign the Communist attachment to Stalin and the Communist revolution, carried out in the same time frame, has been carefully omitted. |
| In Littoral, however, which until the end of the WW2 pertained to Italy, the liberation armed forces consisted only of partisans. Today, the aforesaid »group« (read: Belgrade secret service) is trying to abuse the circumstances, in order to demonstrate, that during the WW2 only the partisans (Communist part) were »in the right«. So, concerning the WW2 this »group« quotes, among other things, the following: ... Littoral (i.e., in contrast to Carniola), at this fateful cross-way was searching for and found the unique right exit, because perhaps its priests sent the people to the partisans... |
| Evidently, it is about an attempt to present the Catholic priests of Littoral as »conscious Slovenians« in contrast to those of Carniola, who should have been »traitors« (anti-Communists). But such a presentation of the Littoral priests is incorrect. It is true, they generously assisted the partisan warriors in every way, when they found them hungry and exhausted. However, their statement, that they sent people to the partisans, (even though the partisans were led by the Communist Party) is an easily demonstrable lie. After the war, the Littoral priests were also persecuted in great numbers. Why, because they »sent people to the partisans«? |
| The truth is, that the Yugoslav regime persecuted the Catholic priests in general and burnt churches in order to uproot the Faith in treacherous ways. For this purpose, its apparatus is spreading lies even today. At the present time they are scrutinising the priests of Littoral very closely. As to persuade the common faithful, who have confidence in the »religious« papers, the weekly Družina is perhaps used as a tool to bring these lies. It is clearly about an abuse of religious messages, which a weekly of this kind has to carry out. |
| Signature withheld |
| July 3, 2005 |
| The book Special Battalions brings memories of my own childhood |
| I read your small article/summary on Special Battalions - Battaglioni Speciali; subtitled: "The Calvary of the Littoral Minors in Word and Image" by Branko Cermelj and Sara Perini (Humar Editorial, Nova Gorica May 2005). |
| My ancestors come from the area of Dekani and my parents told me vague stories similar to what your article implies. I feel there may be either direct or incidental information about my ancestors and I would like to order a copy of the book. |
| Even though I cannot read the Slovenian language, I would still be interested in having this book for my personal library. |
| My background: |
| I was born in Dekani (Slovenia), in October 1952; my parents moved to Trieste in 1955, waiting for immigration to Canada. In the meantime we had to live in the internment camp known as Campo Marco until about March of 1957, when we finally left for Canada. That departure is the only conscious memory I have of that time of my life. |
| It was during our stay in the camp that I was told by my mother, that the Italians intimidate the Slovenian people, make actual threats of physical harm and that my father will loose his employment, if they hear us speaking Slovenian. And so I forgot my native language. |
| You cannot understand the sense of loss and separation that results when the full impact of the above situation is realised - particularly as one gets on in life. |
| Sincerely, |
| Oliver Obad - Canada |
| (cf: Science and Literature, article: Special Battalions - Battaglioni Speciali) |
| June 24, 2005 |
| Družina: Comments on »letter« re founding of new bishoprics in Slovenia |
| The religious weekly Družina (Lublana) published some time ago a noteworthy »letter« addressing the founding of new bishoprics in Slovenia. If I remember rightly, the author was Francc Dolinar, at one-time an important man in the Slovenian Church. In his letter the author expressed his opposition to the establishment of a new diocese in Nova Gorica. He did this under the pretext, that on the other side of the border, in Italy, there still exists the ancient Archbishopric of Gorizia - Gorica. Until recent times, the region of Nova Gorica (now in Slovenia) pertained to this See. Thus, it should embrace this region anew. |
| His letter was evidently written in reference to the upcoming campaign for the establishment of a new "European" region in this territory, which should comprise the area on both sides of the present-day Slovenian - Italian border. Anyway, in this connection several people declared, that it is all about a new expansionistic strategy of Italy towards the East, sustained by the ex-Yugoslav lobby, which in fact commands in Slovenia. - The supposed unique diocese (Gorizia and Nova Gorica), if realised in a short time, should evidently provide a convincible reason for the groundwork of a "European"region, which would embrace only the corresponding territory on both sides of the border. Therefore, it could be presented to Brussels as a "fait accompli" in the Church sphere, allowing the project to obtain easier financing. Recently, the Slovenian Episcopal Conference had published a proposal referring to the founding of new dioceses in Slovenia, which should be presented to the Vatican. In this proposal, the new sees are foreseen in Murska Sobota, Celje, and Novo mesto, but not in Nova Gorica. Was the name omitted only by accident? |
| Not very likely! For the time being, the region of Nova Gorica pertains to the See of Koper. The bishop of Koper is the Ordinary Mons. Metod Pirih. Evidently, he did not propose a new diocese in Nova Gorica. Was he prevented by the aforesaid Yugoslav lobby? |
| In this connection, I would like to bring up an unpleasant event, which I saw on Television Lublana. Believe or not, when in 2004 Slovenia was in front of the elections, Mons. Pirih himself celebrated Mass for Boris Popovic, the major of Koper, who was an approved candidate on a special list. The major of Koper is not a Catholic. His religion is Orthodox, and he is not known as a believer. If he really wanted a (Catholic) Mass, he could have ordered a private one in the parish, like the normal faithful do. Why with the Bishop? Moreover, TV Lublana reported this event in its Journal. Thus, a very pre-election propaganda directed to the Catholic sheep. Further comments are not necessary! |
| Matjaž Peterka |
| June 15, 2005 |
| Družina: Remarks on "Clovek svobodne Slovenije" (A man of free Slovenia) |
| The religious weekly Družina (Lublana, June 12, 2005) published an article entitled "Clovek svobodne Slovenije" (A man of free Slovenia). The column refers to the late politician Miloš Stare and is signed by Tone Jeretina and Tone Štrukelj. The article begins with the following statement: One hundred years have passed, since one of the most notable pre-war and inter-war politicians was born, who consistently spoke of a free and independent Slovenia. - After 1945, it is true, Miloš Stare, a Slovenian immigrant in Argentina, was one of the leading persons, who headed the Slovenian People's Party, and he was also the editor of the weekly "Svobodna Slovenija" (Free Slovenia)… Thus, on the political level a very decisive and energetic man, who with his work supported the Slovenian political immigration. But a fighter, not only for a "free" but also for an "independent" Slovenia? |
| The authors of the article are citing, among other things, the following words from his speech in 1974 for the 30th anniversary of the National Council of Slovenia (Narodni odbor), founded by Slovenian immigrants: … When the time will come for a division of Yugoslavia, we will use all our forces, that the present-day Republic of Slovenia (i.e., at that time still a Yugoslav province) will became an internationally recognized independent democratic State… The Slovenian people have the right to enjoy the fruits of their labour in their own proper State in terms of cultural and economical progress in association with other free nations and States. |
| Yet, when I followed for some decades the political views of the aforesaid National Council for Slovenia in the period after the WW2, I only encountered a political fight against the Communist regime in Yugoslavia, but no fight for an independent Slovenia. Moreover, it was said, that only in the frame of a democratic Yugoslavia the Slovenian people can be saved from a continual Italian and German expansionism. The Council expressed also the opinion, that Slovenia would be too small to survive as an independent State. In fact, a "free" Slovenia meant for the Council: free from Communism but not a free State. |
| It is true, in their political program the National Council and Miloš Stare did not exclude an independent Slovenia. But nobody made an effort to fight for it. In the 2nd half of the 80s, if I remember correctly, in regards to the question concerning Slovenia's future, the Council still gave a declaration for Yugoslavia with the remark: In case, that the latter would cease to exist, then the Council would be ready to vote for an independent Slovenia. Thus, the phrase… for a free and independent Slovenia…as cited in the article by the authors is certainly misleading. |
| In fact, the very first great thinker to lay the groundwork for an Independent Slovenia was Prof. Lambert Ehrlich, who became the victim of a murder attempt, carried out by the Communists († 1942). In the period after the WW2, the combatants for an independent Slovenia were the journalist Franc Jeza (Trieste), the editors of the paper "Slovenska država" (Slovenian State ): Mirko Geratic (Chicago), Vladimir Mauko (Toronto), as well as Ludvik Jamnik and Avguštin Kuk, and some others. It would be only proper to honour their fight for an independent Slovenia as well. |
| (cf: Concealed and Forgotten Persons, articles: Prof. Lambert Ehrlich, Franc Jeza) |
| Jožko Šavli, Gorica |
| June 9, 2005 |
| Comments concerning the religious weekly Družina |
| Some time ago, I was somewhat surprised to read a letter like this in the religious newspaper Družina (Ljubljana). In his comment the »reader« suggested, that after Slovenia's acceptance into the European Union, the Slovenian language would lose its importance in favor of English. It was evidently a propaganda stroke of the ancient Yugoslav (Serbian) secret service, which after the declaration of independence continued with its endeavors to destroy the Slovenian national consciousness. |
| The publication of the »letter« in the religious weekly was not unplanned. It showed the typical tactics used by the Yugoslav secret service to shake the confidence of the Slovenian idea in the Slovenian faithful, who are the traditional bearers of Slovenian identity. The Yugoslavs considered and still consider them as ingenuous sheep, to whom it pays to foist several things. Whatever the good sheep would read in the »religious« paper, they would believe it blindly. In this connection, even the Pope was no exception. In 1997, when he visited Slovenia, he wished all the best to the Slovenian people in their independent State, which they should have had »for the first time« in their history. |
| In fact, the Pope himself was not aware of Carantania and the very Slovenian history. It was an evident lie, which a confidant of the Yugoslav secret service foisted into the church structures as part of the Pope's speech. The stroke of the secret service was clear: the Slovenian sheep should believe it, because the »Pope said« so. |
| After this experience, I asked myself, why would the chief editor of Družina, Dr. Janez Gril, allow to published such nonsense, concerning the »loss« of importance of the Slovenian language after entering the EU? I do not believe, that he was not aware of its provocative character. Further, I am questioning, if he was and if he still is under control of the above mentioned secret service? |
| I am saying this, because recently another letter appeared in Družina, in which a »reader«, believe it or not, is talking about the ex-Communist regime and its structures. And at the end of his letter, he mentions repeatedly the erection of a statue to Tito in Kumrovec (Croatia), his birth village. In this connection, he »mournfully« quoted, that at the time of the inauguration the Slovenians presented the »largest turnout« of those attending. Evidently another lie, which had already spread, when the Slovenian media (under the Yugoslav secret service control) reported, that »the Slovenians« showed an enormous interest in Titoslavija, an establishment in Sarajevo. -You will know them by their deeds! |
| Borut Potocar |
| June 5, 2005 |
| Letter re fresco in the apses of the Aquileia cathedral |
| Dear Sirs, |
| I appreciate your web site on Carantania: it is an excellent work. |
| With regards to the history of this Slovenian territory, a particular fact has attracted my attention, namely the fresco in the apses of the Aquileia cathedral. Today, a female personage appears in the fresco instead of Duke Adalbero, and I would like to ask you, how do you explain this situation. I suppose that you have apprehended the information from the book "Der Dom von Aquileia" by Lanckoronski, edited in 1906. Furthermore, it is written that Poppo was of Bavarian origin. |
| Best regards |
| Mauro Brumat |
| Italy |
| Thank you for paying attention to our website. |
| The explanation about the fresco in the apses of the Aquileia cathedral has been taken from Prof. Sergio Tavano's booklet: Aquileia. Guida dei monumenti cristiani (Udine 1984, p. 121). Patriarch Poppo (1019 - 1042 AD) was the son of Count Otakar of Treffen - Trebenj in Carinthia and Countess Irenburg, who in 1024 founded the monastery of Ossiach - Osoje, Irenburgis fundatrix huius ecclesie (cf. Heinz Dopsch: "Die steierischen Otakare", in "Das Werden der Steiermark", Graz 1980). Later, the Otokar family ruled the Carantanian March (Styria). Their supposed "Bavarian" origin referred to the Counts of Chiemgau, but there are no records to prove this. Thus, Patriarch Poppo was neither a Bavarian. |
| (cf: Korenine Part II, article: Maria in Solio) |
| June 2, 2005 |
| Notes on human rights and minority protection |
| Recently, a study group of the European Parliament, under the presidency of Csaba Tabajdi (Hungary), responsible for national minority protection, analyzed the question of autochtonous national minorities in Spain. The committee came to the conclusion, that lesser used languages spoken in some Spanish provinces, like Catalan, Basque and Galician, could be applied in the administration of the European Parliament by deputies, who belong to the aforesaid national minorities. The outcome of the evaluation was presented in form of a declaration to Josep Borello, the president of the European Parliament. Catalan, for example, is the mother tongue of 9 million people. |
| (signature withheld) |
| May 27, 2005 |
| I am a descendant of the Baroness of Oberburg |
| Hello, |
| I read an article that Jozko Savli provided at http://www.carantha.net/our_castles_part_i.htm regarding the Oberburg family of Gornji Grad in Stajerska, Slovenia. I am a descendant of a Baroness of Oberburg (born around 1620-25) who married an aristocrat of Trieste named Giovanni Francol de Francolsberg. One of their great granddaughters, Maria Anna Cattarina de Francol, was the wife of Johann Josef Stanislaus (Giovanni Giuseppe Stanislao) von Kupferschein. Their son Franz (Francesco) immigrated to Puerto Rico and his descendants changed the spelling of Kupferschein to Cofresi for easier Spanish pronunciation. |
| Anyway, I'm interested in finding out how I can get more information on the Oberburgs. I'd like to trace my ancestry farther back, if possible. |
| Thank you. |
| Rick Lopez |
| (cf: Our Castles Part I, article: Gornji Grad (Oberburg) |
| Note from Carantha editorial staff: |
| Thank you for paying attention to our web page. At the present time we do not have further data on descendants of Oberburg. If we should discover other members of this family in the future, we gladly will publish them on the internet. |
| May 15, 2005 |
| Remarks concerning oath to Stalin |
| Thus in Slovenia during the Second World War, partisan fighters were constrained to swear to Stalin?! Such was the order of the Communist Party, which practically led the Liberation Front. Although this fact has been carefully concealed for decades by the apparatus of the Yugoslav Communist regime. Actually, even today in independent Slovenia, the same apparatus continues to accuse members of the Slovenian home-guard, who were their anticommunist adversaries during the war, for having sworn an oath "to Hitler". In this case, it is about a dextrous falsification. The truth is, that after the German occupation, the home-guard warriors swore loyalty to the then German State. Otherwise, they very probably would have been sent to the Russian front. Under those circumstances, it was about a deed in need. But, the Communist Party contrary to this, was not forced to constrain partisan fighters to swear an oath to Stalin. It was their own decision and responsibility. Therefore, these doings have been persistently concealed until now. |
| (signature withheld) |
| May 10, 2005 |
| Remarks concerning Bavaria! |
| In a series of studies, published under the title »Wege der Forschung«, we also find a miscellany called »Zur Geschichte Bayerns« (Darmstadt 1965), edited by Karl Bosl. It contains 16 very interesting papers. But, not one of them is treating names, i.e., Vendic (Slovenian) names, which in large numbers appear all over the Bavarian territory. This important aspect of the research has been ignored by other authors too. Why? Are they afraid that, if these names are taken into account, then they would have to recognize that Bavarians in their origin are not only of German ancestry. It is possible, that for the most part they are Vends or Veneti? |
| Furthermore, the authors of the above mentioned volume do not treat neighbouring Carantania (Slovenia) as an autonomous duchy under the confederate kingdom called Francia Orientalis, but simply as a Bavarian march. On the other hand, they are making a particular effort to present Bavaria in history as a continuous »national duchy« (Stammesherzogtum). Bavaria did not always have this status, in particular after 788 AD, when its ducal family of Agilolfinger was deposed by Charlemagne. Well-known authors like K. Reindel, F. Prinz and others take the same standpoint in a more recent work called »Handbuch der bayerischen Geschichte (1985)«. Their aim is evident: to intentionally deny the Slovenian origin of Carantania (the forerunner of Austria). |
| Signature withheld |
| (cf: Bavaria, and its origin) |
| April 28, 2005 |
| Notes on declaration of 16 historians |
| The »declaration« of the 16 historians, reported in Carantha, contains among other things, the following clause: ... In this way, the autonomy is being lost, which the (Slovenian) historiography obtained with difficulty by means of fighting in the 80s of the past century... Upon reading these words I was very surprised, because I remember an event from the 80s, which demonstrates the opposite. At that time, the Belgrade regime engaged a Mexican archaeologist, who »discovered« Troy at the outfall of the Neretva river in Dalmatia. The Yugoslav press, evidently ordered by the regime, made a big thing out of it: Troy in Yugoslavia! And so did the Daily Delo (Lublana). Perhaps, the Daily published the »event« as a feuilleton. It was an evident manipulation of the public mind, but Slovenian historians did not protest. They were not allowed to speak out. Thus, it is not true, that at that time they already had autonomy (obtained by fighting against the Yugoslav regime). |
| Dr. Jožko Šavli |
| (cf: Current from Slovenia, article: Remarks concerning a Declaration) |
| April 28, 2005 |
| Faculty of Theology |
| With regards to the Faculty of Theology (Lublana) I would like to draw your attention to a series of lectures, entitled »Under God's eyes in the European Union«, which were open for discussion during the time before Easter 2004. If I remember correctly, the organizer was Prof. Dr. Rudi Koncilija, supported by the lecturers: Dr. Anton Stres, Prof. Mirko Mahnic, Father Vital Vider, Prof. Dr. Ivan Štuhec, and Prof. Justin Stanovnik. The lectures were well attended by a large audience, who followed the interesting topics. But.... It was during Lent, when the whole Christian world remembers the suffering of Christ, followed by the Resurrection. Contrary to tradition, the Faculty was preparing lectures about Europe!!! It was evidently done on purpose to deviate the public's attention from Christ to modish Europe. The appellate »under God's eyes« served only as a fig leaf. |
| Such a cunning instrumentalization was not noticed by the »sheep«, who have full confidence in the academic and ecclesiastical authority. The one who was aware of what was going on, could not have done anything against the general current of thinking produced by the organizing lecturers.... The Yugoslav Communist regime, it is true, does not exist anymore. But its underground, with anti-Slovenian and anti-Catholic activities, is still alive. »By their deeds you will recognize them«, said Christ. |
| (signature withheld) |
| April 26, 2005 |
| I am proud of my Slovenian heritage |
| Hi There, |
| As someone who is proud of my Slovenian heritage, I would like to congratulate you for presenting the truth about Slovenian history. For too long Slovenians have been lied to about their history - lied to by the Austrians who "stole" our culture and heritage and claimed it as their own to compensate for their lack of history as happened with Carantania, lied to by the previous communist regime in Slovenia which was brainwashed by propaganda and because they were instructed by Belgrade and now lied to by the so called "cultural elites" in Slovenia. |
| Nevertheless, there is light at the end of the tunnel - more and more Slovenians are discovering the truth through websites like yours and others and books are now available. The message is spreading and in the end as is always the case, the truth prevails. Equally, as the last election in Slovenia has shown, the majority of Slovenians are no longer prepared to accept the opinions of the "cultural elite" including the media, because as is the case in other countries, these organisations do not reflect "real" public opinion. |
| The more Slovenians learn about our glorious and rich history, the greater the pressure on Slovenia's government to change the teaching of history to include Carantania. This is a great triumph for democracy and freedom because only in a democratic society can one have free exchange of ideas and thoughts and through this debate process we arrive at the truth. |
| I will continue to spread the message and bring your website to the attention of as many Slovenians and non-Slovenians as possible. |
| Keep up the good work! |
| Lep Pozdrav, |
| Peter |
| April 26, 2005 |
| Comments on Declaration published by Slovenian historians |
| Regarding the Izjava (declaration), published by a group of Slovenian historians, and the problem of true explanation of Slovenian history, I also would like to call attention to the Slovenian Christian history, which, as far as I know, never has been written down until now. Even today, the Faculty of Theology (University of Lublana), is teaching exclusively Church history. To my knowledge there is only a single work that explores the history of Christianization of the Slovenians, but not the Slovenian Christian history. It was a doctoral dissertation, written half a century ago by Dr. Aloysius Kuhar and presented to the University of Cambridge, in 1949. A wonderful study, although it is influenced by the then (ideological) imaginations. Its title is "The Conversation of the Slovenes and the German-Slav ethnic boundary in the Eastern Alps" (published in part by Studia Slovenica, Washington - New York 1967). As we can tell from the title, the conception "ethnic", referring to the non-existing nations of Germans and Slavs, is wrong. Notwithstanding this, because of the employed documents, this work is very precious. |
| Anyway, as far as I know, until this very day Kuhar's work has not been traduced in Slovenian. Why? In my opinion, if I am not wrong, the reason lies in the official Southern Slav ideology, which in the period of Yugoslavia had to be observed by the professors of the Faculty of Theology of Lublana. In that period, only studies about the Cyril-Method mission was allowed, because they were "Slav" evangelists and originated from the Balkans. After the intervention of Prof. Maks Miklavcic (in directive of the Belgrade secret service), the Diocese of Lublana had to change its patrons. Instead of the Saints of Aquileia, which are Hermagor and Fortunatus, Cyril and Method took the first place. That is what was happening, even though Cyril and Method have no historical connection with Lublana. Their role was evidently misused in order to diffuse the Slav ideology. The aforesaid conditions are still binding in independent Slovenia. Why is the Faculty of Theology in Lublana continuing its education mission in the same way as it did under the control of Belgrade (?). |
| (signature withhold) |
| (cf: Current from Slovenia, article: Remarks concerning a Declaration) |
| April 25, 2005 |
| Comments on Declaration signed by Slovenian historians in April 2005 |
| The "declaration", signed by a committee of Slovenian historians and published in the mass media in the 2nd half of April 2005, has to be regarded as a typical reaction of a lobby group, whose opinion monopoly seems to be in danger. We find among them parade-historians like Božo Repe (Lublana) or Jože Pirjevec (Trieste), the historians on the duty for the day, when Lublana Television (under control of Serbian secret service) is reporting something about history. It is evident that their attachment to the Yugoslav ideology has survived until today. Moreover, they terrorize with their "scientific" (read: ideological) interpretation of Slovenian history the public mind and schools. |
| Such a situation reminds us of the times after the First World War. Already in 1920, the Belgrade regime sent to Lublana its confidant, Prof. Nikola Radojcic, who was teaching (not existing) Yugoslav history at the local university. He simply thought in Serbian language until the WW2 and beyond. The history, it is true, thereafter was taught in Slovenian and the banal title "Yugoslav" history was omitted. Nevertheless, the historical interpretation was given in the frame of the Yugoslav (great-Serbian) ideology. This situation is going on in "independent" Slovenia until this very day. |
| Borut Potocar (Slovenia) |
| (cf: Current from Slovenia, article: Remarks concerning a Declaration) |
| April 9, 2005 |
| Slovenscina me zanima in tudi zgodovina Slovencev |
| Slovenscina me zanima in tudi zgodovina Slovencev. Moj oce je Slovenec in |
| jaz se cutim Slovenca. Ampak tukaj ne poznam nobenega ki bi se za to |
| zanimal, in potrebujem kaksni naslovnaj katerega bi poslal vprasanja. |
| Moj naslov: Edoardo Roncelli, via Risano 14, 34149 Trieste - Italy; |
| March 10, 2005 |
| Excerpt from Vecer: |
| Zanimiva Zgodovina |
| Avtor: Ferdo 10.3.2005 20:53:04 |
| Veckrat prebiram stran Carantha in opaam da je v njej resnicno navedena tista prikrita zgodovina do karere se je le teko prebiti.Vse pohvale avtorjem.Opaam tudi splošno zanimanje Slovenske mladine za resnicno prikazovanje naše zgodovine.To me zelo veseli,a vseeno moramo strmeti za tem,da tudi v bodoce posvetimo vecjo pozornost raziskovanju zgodovinskih tem, ki so še vedno "nacrtovano"pozabljene. Prav stran Carantha nam to omogoca.Škoda je edino da ne pridejo te teme tudi v naše tiskane medije.Mogoce bo c bodoce kaj bolše.UPAM! |
| March 9, 2005 |
| Danes sem ob iskanju gradiva o Venetih odkril vašo spletno stran. Zavedam se, da je e oblikovanje tolikšne spletne strani ogromno delo, ne predstavljam pa si vsega dela, ki ste ga vloili v zbiranje izvirov in znanja, ki ste ga uporabili, da ste zbrali tako veliko kolicino vedenja in znanja na "en kup". |
| Tako sem se odlocil, da dam povezavo na vašo spletno stran tudi iz svoje strani in bo tam objavljena v nekaj dneh. Hvala vam za vaš trud in verjamem, da se vam poplaca. |
| S spoštovanjem |
| Vse dobro |
| Vojko Kalan |
| http://www.9zvezd.com |
| February 28, 2005 |
| Srebrenica |
| Spostovani. |
| Posiljam vam povezavo o porocilu, ki ga je izdala komisija nozozemske vlade v zvezi z tragedijo v Srebrenici. Pred casom sem nekje naletel na to temo. Ce porocila se ne poznate, vam bo morda v podporo pri vasem raziskovanju. Opis vsebine najdete, ce kliknete na 'Table of Contens'. |
| http://213.222.3.5/srebrenica/ |
| Lep pozdrav in veliko uspeha pri oblikovanju spletne strani. |
| Dejan Flasker |
| The Netherlands |
| ______________________________ |
| VESELIA FELICETAS...., a critical view |
| In regards to the article of Mr. Zeljko Nincevic concerning the Roman inscription CIL III 3093 - 10100 (Veselia Felicetas), found on Brazza island (Brac) in Dalmatia (Croatia), I hereby acknowledge that I am in agreement with the author's opinion. In fact, which hypothesis could better explain the »mystery« of the Illyrian language as Hans Krahe did in his work »Die Sprache der Illyrer« (1955). Besides, this could also serve as proof, that the ancient inhabitants of Brazza island in Dalmatia used a language, respectively a dialect very close to that of the Liburnians, Japodians, Istrians, and Pannonians, which has to be taken into consideration - at least from the linguistic point of view - the relatives of the ancient Veneti. Such was also the opinion of Geza Alföldi (cf. Bevölkerung… , 1965) and several other authors. |
| Felicetas in the above-mentioned inscription can be, in my opinion, only a strict translation of the name Veselia. Still today this word is used as a first name in the people's language of Croatia (especially in Dalmatia, Istria and Slavonia) and in the entire Slovenia. In the native tongue of these countries, the expression "veselje" (pron. veselye) means joy, or luck. Not only is Vesela and Veselin still today a well known first name in those regions, but also family names like Veselic, Veselinovic derived from it. |
| In this connection, I consider totally contradictory and superficial the corresponding explanation given by Prof. Aldo Prosdocimi (cf. I Veneti antichi, 1988, p. 399). As to clear the Veselia Felicetas meaning, he cites H. Krahe, who compares Veselia with the Latvian vesels "gesund, heil" (meaning healthy) and the Old Bulgarian (i.e., Old Church Slav) vesel' "froh, vergnügt" (meaning happy, cheerful). Of the same opinion is Julius Pokorny, who explains Veselia with "gesund" (healthy) (cf. Indogermanisches Wörterbuch, 1959). - But the words "gesund, heil" (healthy) don't mean vesel (cheerful), from which Veselia derives, and which is still in use in the local mother tongue. |
| Neither H. Krahe nor A. L. Prosdocimi or J. Pokorny took into consideration the local languages, i.e., the Croatian (Dalmatia), that is found in the territory, where the aforesaid inscription appeared (the village Skrip on the isle of Brazza - Brac). So, I'm asking myself, why a glottologist and historian like Aldo Luigi Prosdocimi from the University of Padova, instead of copying Krahe's quotations, did not take into consideration the Croatian vocabulary? In my opinion, CIL III 3093 will be very helpful in solving many contradictory hypothesis concerning the mystery of the Illyrian language. |
| I believe, that CIL III 3093 - 10100 is a clear proof, that the people of Dalmatia are still speaking the same language as their ancestors did at least two thousand years ago. Such is also the opinion of Dr. Ivan Muzic, as quoted in his interesting work (cf. Autoctonia… 1994, p. 33, 36). Furthermore, I am wondering, why did the Acad. Prof. Radoslav Katicic, in contrast to Milan Budimir (1934), avoid his own native Croatian language, when he tried to explain Veselia Felicetas (cf. Beiträge... 1961). And again, why Prof. A. Stipcevic, the author of the important work "Gli Illiri" (1966), did not express up front any concrete opinions concerning the Illyrian language? However, in the Croatian edition of his work (1974) the same author says, that Veselia Felicetas could be explained by the Slav word veselje (joy). But in the last edition of his work (1991, p. 193) he affirms, that the Illyrian language has been preserved in the modern Albanian, what stands in contrast to his previous standpoint. |
| cf: Forum Veneti Part I, article Veselia Felicetas |
| F. Lurenzin, Switzerland |
| Some Bibliography: |
|
Radoslav Katicic: Veselia Felicetas, in: Beiträge zur Namenforschung, Band 12, Heidelberg 1961, pp. 271 - 279 | |
|
Hans Krahe: Die Sprache der Illyrer, Wiesbaden 1955 | |
|
Mayer A.: Die Sprache der alten Illyrer II, Wien 1959, 124 ff. | |
|
Julius Pokorny: Indogermanisches etymologisches Wörterbuch, Bern - München 1959 | |
|
J. N. Kalleris: Les ancient Macedoniens I, Athens 1954. p. 186 ff. | |
|
Geza Alföldi: Bevölkerung und Gesellschaft der römischen Provinz Dalmatien, Budapest 1965) | |
|
John Wilkes: Gli Illiri tra identità ed integrazione, 1998, p. 75 - 93 | |
|
Ivan Muzic: Autoctonia e prereligione sul suolo della provincia romana di Dalmazia, Roma 1994 | |
|
Milan Budimir: Revue internazionale des etudes balcaniques I (1934), p. 284 | |
| January 22st, 2005 |
| Grad Schwarzenstein in Laze near Velenje (Slovenia) |
 |
| Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren von der Carantha Redaktion, ist es möglich, von Ihnen weiterführende Informationen über das Schloss Schwarzenstein zu erhalten? Das Schloss steht in Laze bei Velenje, nicht weit vom Schloss Helfenberg entfernt, das von Ihnen unter der Rubrik „Our Castles Part I" beschrieben wird. |
| Es ist nicht so, dass ich überhaupt keine Informationen zur Geschichte des Schlosses Schwarzenstein hätte, das ich vor einem Jahr gekauft habe und jetzt vorsichtig renoviere. Ich habe den Stich von Vischer und kenne die Beschreibungen bei Stopar und Jakic sowie bei Orozen (Bistum Lavant). Sonst tappe ich aber noch ziemlich im Dunkeln. Gehofft habe ich, dass vielleicht Dr. Savli ein paar Informationen mehr hat oder mir sagen kann, wo ich am besten suchen kann. Ganz schön wäre es, wenn man etwas über die von Schwarzenstein und deren Wappen erfahren könnte. Helfenberg habe ich erwähnt, weil da sicher nachbarliche Beziehungen zu den Herren von Schwarzenstein bestanden und die Familie Jezovnik offenbar bis 1945 Besitzer von Helfenberg waren. |
| Mit freundlichen Grüssen, |
| Dr. Alexander Pauer, Basel |
| Some information on Grad Schwarzenstein: |
 |
| Grad Švarcenštajn - Gradic |
| Grad stoji na lahni vzpetini v naselju Laze pri Velenju. Prvic se omenja leta 1360, vendar je današnja stavba v svojih temeljnih sestavinah iz leta 1523. Temeljni tloris je pravokotnik s stolpicastim prizidkom sredi daljše stranice in delno obzidanim dvorišcem. Stavba je dvonadstropna in na dvorišcni strani opremljena s sekundarnimi arkadami. Posebno dragocene sestavine so gotski vhodni portal, gotska klet in ostanki gotskega polastega stopnišca. Švarcenštajn je pomemben kot znacilen primer poznosrednjeveškega gradica, ki je poleg vecinoma intaktne zasnove ohranil tudi mnoge dragocene arhitekturne prvine iz casa svojega nastanka. |
| (Carantha Redaktion) |
| January 21st, 2005 |
| Coat of arms of the Gregorich (Gregoric) family |
 |
| I am an 18 year old Slovenian nationalist socialist, who is interested in Slovenian history and reads with great pleasure Dr. Šavli's books. Right now I am looking for heraldic information on the above coats of arms. I believe in the Venetic theory because it is very important for our country. Your webpage is great. |
| Best regards! |
| (Signature withheld) |
| Comment by Carantha editorial staff: |
| It was a pleasure to receive the picture of this beautiful coat of arms pertaining to the Gregorich (Gregoric) family. The name Gregoric appears in Slavonian (Croatian) territory. It is also found among Slovenians, where the form Gregorcic is more in use. The owners of the above-mentioned coat of arms could have had estates, or they even might have resided in Slovenian territory, as it was the case with some other Croatian nobles, for example the Lenkovics or the Blagays. Anyway, their coat of arms does not appear among those of Slovenian nobility, as for example in the armorials of Valvasor or Siebmacher. This means, they lived in one of the Slovenian lands without "Landsmannschaft", which was of no interest to them, because it was not obligatory. |
| Comment by Carantha editorial staff: |
| As described in the annals of Grajansko Sodisce Grmovje, the border continuos through the Grajansko Sodisce of Zalec and extends beyond the border of Grajansko Sodisce Celje until "Jurijevega vinograda" in Arja Vas, whose past owner was Gregoric… etc. |
| Grajansko Sodisce Grmovje |
| V smislu urbaria grajscine Hofrain z dne 9. Junija 1567, ki se nahaja v graskem arhivu v izvirniku, so meje grajanskega sodisca sledece: Meja tece ob vzhodni meji bivsega zalskega grajanskega sodisca preko Loznice in za mejo celjskega grajanskega sodisca do Jurijevega vinograda, doma iz Arje vasi ter ga je posedoval poprej Gregoric, nadalje preko velikega gozda do potokov Piresica in Dobovice do sv. Kunigunde in v Hramse. V severu se dotika meje dezel. Sodisca Rabensberg in konca pri topilnici v Socki ob meji sostanjskega dezelnega sodisca. |
| December 25, 2004 |
| Searching for information on Reyhenburg |
| I was searching Google on "Reyhenburg" and found this: |
| Carantha Archives Part IV |
| ... Plettriarch die von dem Stifter Grafen Hermann von Cilly dahin geschenkten Zehenden in den Pfarreien Doebernick, Seusenberg, Lichtenwald und Reyhenburg zu. |
| Can you tell me more about Reyhenburg? |
| Regards, |
| Hugo de Vries |
| http://gen.kibrahacha.com |
| Families: de Vries (Schermerhorn, Spaarndam, Amsterdam), Joha (Eupen, Friesland, Leiden), van Asperen (Streefkerk, Sliedrecht, Alblasserdam), Kaal/Karel (Wehl, Renkum), de Vries (Amsterdam, Paramaribo), Brook (Sneek, Paramaribo), Abendanon (St. Eustatius, Paramaribo), Robles de Medina (Spanje, Paramaribo) (37,000+persons) |
| On December 12, 2005 you might be visitor number 300,000 to http://kibrahacha.com |
| Answer |
| Here is some information on Reyhenburg (Rajhenburg/Reichenburg). You will find it in Carantha under rubrik Our Castles Part II. |
| The Carantha staff |
| December 17, 2004 |
| Letter from Sandro Macchi |
| Vorrei fare i Migliori Auguri a tutti gli Jermol che sono in Slovenia e vicinanze confine; sono stato sabato scorso a Montegrino insieme a Jermoli Angelica e spero di tornare per qualche giorno tra 1 e 9 gennaio 2005 - Di nuovo Auguri a tutti ! |
| Sandro Macchi, SEIM srl via A.Volta 17, 20090 CUSAGO (MI) - Italy |
| phone +39 02 9039215, fax +39 02 90392140, mailto:sandro.macchi@seim.it , site : http://www.seim.it |
| December 17, 2004 |
| Letter from Primoz |
| Pozdravljeni, |
| med svojim iskanjem o Karantaniji sem nekako zasel tudi na vase strani. Sem |
| zelo presenecen nad vsem materialom, ki se ga da prebrati na vasi strani. |
| Kaj mi lahko kaj vec poveste o vas, o straneh? Kaj gre to za drustvo? Kaksno |
| je poslanstvo in vizija te strani? Elektronsko pismo vam pisem z obilico |
| navdusenja in obcudovanja nad stvarmi, ki jih vasa druscina ustvarja. |
| V pricakovanju vasega odgovora vas lepo pozdravljam in vam zelim veliko |
| srece v prihajajocem letu. |
| Lep pozdrav, |
| Primoz |
| Odgovarjamo: Veseli smo bili Tvojega sporocila in pohvale, izrecene nasemu |
| delu in prizadevanju. Nase poslanstvo? Zelimo vsaj do neke mere odkriti |
| tisto kulturo in zgodovino Slovencev, ki je bila vse doslej prisiljeno |
| zamolcana. Vladajoci rezim v casu stare Avstrije in potem se Jugoslavije je |
| na akademski ravni blokiral prikaz resnicne identitete Slovencev. Pod |
| Avstrijo so nas oznacili kot narod "brez zgodovine". Pod Jugoslavijo pa kot |
| "hlapce in dekle", pod tisocletnim "nemskim" jarmom, izpod katerega naj bi |
| nas odresila sele Jugoslavija ob koncu prve svetovne vojne. Taksno |
| prikazovanje nase lastne kulture in zgodovine je se vedno prisotno v nasih |
| solah, kar nedvomno greni in hromi zavest nasih mladih. Kot je razvidno iz |
| gradiva, objavljenega na Caranthi, je zodovinska resnica o Slovencih povsem |
| drugacna: Ponosen narod z drzavnim izrocilom in starodavno korenino. Taksna |
| je resnicna slika o nas, ki s prizadevanjem zavednih slovenskih ljudi |
| postopoma le prodira tudi v sirso slovensko javnost. |
| December 17, 2004 |
| Wappen der von Waidegg und das Wappen der Säckl |
| Hallo, |
| auf Eurer Internetseite habe ich unter dem Artikel Carantanian Knights von Dr. Jožko Šavli die Wappen der von Waidegg und das Wappen der Säckl entdeckt. Da ich selbst in Waidegg daheim bin, interessiert mich besonders die Geschichte dieses Adelsgeschlechtes. Die slowenische Bezeichnung from Bajdek läßt darauf schließen, daß dieses Adelsgeschlecht in den Geschichtsbüchern von Slowenien öfters erscheint. Da unser Hausname vlg. Sackl ist und wir im Zila Valley (Gailtal ) wohnen, würde mich auch die Herkunft des Wappens Säckl interessieren. Bitte um Antwort. |
| Informativ: Die Fam. Kommetter bewirtschaftet diesen landwirtschaftlichen Betrieb nachweislich schon seit 1731. In diesem Jahr erfolgte die erste nachweisliche Übergabe. Beim Betrieb handelt es sich um einen freissäschen Hof, wobei nur einzelne Grundstücke "frei" waren und andere dazu belehnt wurden. Noch nicht geklärt konnte werden, wann der Betrieb "gekauft" wurde. Der erste "Kommetter" müsste ca. um 1685 geboren worden sein. In diesem Zeitraum wurden viele kleinere Besitze bzw. einzelne Grundstücke von den "Weideggern" verkauft. |
| Rudi Kommetter, 9631 Waidegg 9 Vlg. Sackl (Austria) |
| Antwort: |
| Danke für Ihre Nachfrage! Ich konnte von dem Geschlecht Säckl leider fast nichts herausfinden. Nur das Wappen wurde in Valvasor veröffentlicht. Die Familie könnte neben der deutschen auch eine slowenische Namensform Žakel getragen haben, was dasselbe bedeutet. Margaret Säckl, als Frau des Herrn Meichsner (in Mitschigh oder in Hermagor), wird von Santonino ungefähr 1485 erwähnt. Mehr ließ sich nicht feststellen. Daß die Säckl aus dem heutigen Slowenien herstammten, ist nicht wahrscheinlich. Sehr interessant ist jedoch die schwarz-weiße Farbe ihres Wappens. Das Geschlecht der Weidegg (Bajdek) hat die gleichen Farben in ihrem Wappen. Es sind die karantanischen Farben. Mehr von diesem Geschlecht habe ich wahrscheinlich unter den Burgen (Our Castles Part I oder Our Castles Part II) niedergeschrieben. Als Quelle benutzte ich das Sibmacher Buch der Wappen (Bd. Kärnten). |
| Mit freundlichen Grüssen |
| Carantha Redaktion |
| October 28, 2004 |
| Researching my surname Jermol |
| I happened to come across your website this evening, while searching for information on my surname JERMOL. I was thrilled to find some history about my name by Dr. Jožko Šavli. I am thoroughly enjoying the History of Slovenia in the articles and look forward to return to your site again and again. My father was a Jermol from Volce, next to Tolmin (his father was Jozef Jermol) and as a child I enjoyed his many recollections of his beloved homeland. Dr. Šavli is very likely related to me. I printed the Jermoli coat of arms and forwarded this website address to my brother, knowing that he will also enjoy visiting your homepage. Thank you for all the hard work and time that has gone into this wonderful site. |
| Sincerely, |
| Tania Jermol |
| Canada |
| (cf: Concealed and Forgotten Persons, article: Franc Šavli - Medved) |
| October 15, 2004 |
| Reader's comments on The song of a Styrian shepherd |
| Gentlemen, |
| I had read years ago that Beethoven had based some of his compositions and themes on, what he called, "The Peoples Music". That reference must then have been in regards to the Vendic populations of central Europe. |
| Richard Jamsek |
| Arizona, USA |
| Reader's comments on The song of a Styrian shepherd |
| October 17, 2004 |
| Hello, |
| In regard to the imperial hymn, the motif of which Haydn should have taken from a Slovenian shepherd's song of Lower Styria, I found a different version. Says Renzo de Vidovich, the author of the book »Dalmazia, una regione d'Europa« (Trieste 1993), Haydn took the motif from a part of symphony written by the famous composer Julije Bajamonti (1744 - 1800) from Split in Dalmatia. Except that, once I was told that Haydn himself was of Slovenian descent. When I mentioned this to my Slovenian friend, he came up with the thought of a possible connection between Haydn and Hajdina, a borough close to Ptuj (Lower Styria). Further on, I have to admit that, when my wife and I for the first time listened to the music of Haydn's work »Die Schöpfung«, we both were touched to tears. It was an inner experience without comparison. In my opinion, Haydn's music reveals, irrespective of his possible Slovenian descent, a very spirit of the ancient Veneti. Is it possible that a great part of famous musicians like Bach, Händl, Haydn, Mozart, Dvorak, Chopin, Gallus... originated mainly from Central Europe, the territory of the ancient Veneti? |
| Ivano Trevisan, Veneto (Italy) |
| *** |
| September 17, 2004 |
| Veneti ali slovenci |
| Pozdravljeni, |
| Našel sem vašo spletno stran in tema o kateri pišete me zelo zanima. V kolikor je mogoce, bi vas prosil da mi pošljete literaturo na to temo, ki jo premorete v slovenskem jeziku. |
| Za kakršnekoli informacije, od katerihkoli avtorjev, še posebej pa tistih, ki so kakorkoli podkrepljeni z zgodovinskimi dokazi ali teorijami vam bom zelo hvaleen. |
| Lep pozdrav, |
| Boštjan |
| Comment: |
| Pozdravljeni g. Boštjan! |
| Zahvlajujem se za Vaš e-mail. Moja spletna stran je pretežno v anglešcini in nemšcini, v slovenskem jeziku je le nekaj malega. Tisto, kar se nanaša na celotno zgodovino Slovenije in kar za obdobje pred prvo in drugo svetovno vojno ni bilo objavljeno. Ker je to zamolcana zgodovina Slovencev, je bilo potrebno o njej porocati. Tako je nastala moja spletna stran Carantha (okrajšano iz Karantanija). Seveda obstajajo posebni razlogi, zakaj porocamo o resnicni slovenski zgodovini prvenstveno v anglešcini. To je svetovni jezik, in tudi zgodovina Slovencev sodi v evropsko in svetovno zgodovino. Slovenci smo se prebili v moderni cas kot starodaven narod, ki je po zatonu antike dolga stoletja pripadal sodržavju z imenom Sveto Rimski cesarstvo. To je bila takrat združena Evropa. V vzhodnjaški Jugoslaviji smo bili le kakih 70. let. |
| Na Caranthi pa je precej branja tudi v slovenšcini. Dodatno gradivo se nahaja v knjigah Mateja Bora, Jožka Šavlija, Ivana Tolmažica in drugih. Nekatere od njih smo predstavili tudi na Caranthi, in jih še bomo. V njih je zgodovinsko gradivo, in recimo, tudi dokazi. Pri slednjih gre dejansko za razlage vsem znanih arheoloških najdb, etnološkega izrocila in seveda zgodovinskih listin. Razlage so doslej podajali v okviru ideologij, kot so jih narekovale politicne strukture oz. režimi, ki so in ki še financirajo univerze, akademije in druge ustanove. Na primer, akademski svet je moral obvezno navajati, da so "Slovani", ki so dejansko le jezikovna skupina in nikoli niso obstajali kot narod, prišli iz neke pradomovine za Karpati. Nikoli niso mogli dognati, kje na bi zares bila, in nikoli jasno navesti, kdaj so potekali selitveni tokovi domnevnih Slovanov. |
| Naleteli pa smo tudi na ponaredbe. Trdili so najprej, predvsem nemška stran, da je bila Karantanija pod nadvlado Obrov. Tako še vedno navajajo v Avstriji, seveda brez kakih dokazov, samo da bi poniževali Slovence. Ko v Jugoslaviji (Sloveniji), kjer so jih tudi vedno omalovaževali, tega ni bilo vec mogoce resno trditiv, so si izmislili, da so Obri vendarle imeli pod oblastjo vsaj Kranjsko. Pri tem so se sklicevali na pismo poveljnika frankovske vojske Pipina ženi Karla Velikega, Fastradi, v katerem navaja, da je njegova vojska, ko je šla iz Italije nad Obre, dan hoda od italijanske meje naletela na obrski hring. Ta naj bi bil torej na Kranjskem. Toda izpustili so v viru navedbo "ipse introivit Illyricum...". Kranjska pa je v virih navedena po padcu Rima sprva kot Alpes Juliana in potem kot Carnech patria in Carniola, nikoli pa kot Ilirik. - Da navedemo samo en primer uradnega ponarejanja. Na takšne primere bomo seveda še opozarjali! |
| Prijateljski pozdrav, B. Ježovnik |
| Letter from David P. Arriaga, Bilbao (España ) |
| Hola! About a month ago I had the opportunity to read, in the cultural site "Celtoiberia", a contribution made to the origin and meaning of "España" (Sobre el origen del nombre de España). The here exposed linguistic or better etymological solution of the word seems to be, on hand of the Venetian language, immediately familiar and interesting enough to approach me to find out more about it in the "teoria veneta", provoking many confused questions in my mind. |
| Even though, I visited Venice many times during my student years, I never imagined - frankly speaking - that under the name of this splendid city actually hides the name of a "tribe"(or "proto-nation"?) that lived here already since pre-Roman times. Furthermore, I admit to have read a lot of books about Etruscans and Ligurians. Until now, linguists in Spain tried to "decode" the Etruscan tables on hand of the Basque language, they even provided some possible explanation as to the origin of Euskadi in contrary to the Venetiani. |
| It has captured my interest and I would like to discover more about this civilisation which, in Prof. Jozko Savli's opinion, left many recognizable names behind for rivers, hills, places and so on, not only in northern Italy and Slovenia but also in the area of Central Europe. However, when I explored this Venetian culture on the "Carantha" Internet site I came across some ethnological phenomena, which corresponds strangely enough to the same category in the northern Spanish territory. So the "skedenj", which reminds me of the horreo in the region of Asturias, and the "mlaj", to my knowledge customary in some places of Northern Spain at the beginning of May. |
| The curious fact that in our country, in ancient times, people used to live with a similar name to "Venetiani" has to be paid attention to. The "Vennenses" in fact, mentioned by Pliny the Elder, together with the "Carietes" in northern Spain only, formed an organized community (see "Historia naturalis" III, 26). During Roman times we find also a place called "Veniatia" (or "Veniata", "Viniata") close to the Roman road from Bracara to Asturica, between Compleutica and Petavonium (very probably identified today with "Vinhais" in northern Portugal). |
| With regards to the "Carietes et Venennses" mentioned by Pliny, it seems that the archaeology discovered and located one of the 5 "polis" (cities, settlements) which the Roman writer attributes to them. It should be the actual Iruña de Oca, not far westerly from Vitoria-Gasteiz (in the plain of the southern slope of the Pais Vasco "Alava"), in the antiquity known as "Veleia" or "Velia". In that area many special urns (urnas cinerarias) and other important finds were discovered. Archaeologists claim that here the rite of incineration was very probably still practised during the Roman occupation. |
| Something similar was recently discovered in the region of Navarra (place "Eslava", in different sites) where beside necropolis with urns many big "graves" (mausoleos) were found. A real sensation for the Spanish archaeology and cultural history! |
| Based on the above mentioned traces, do you think there is a cultural connection between the northern Iberian peninsula and the Venetians in Italy, or respectively to the Central European area? |
| Do you really believe that the peoples (or tribes, "proto-nations"??) in northern Italy and Spain could descend from the same pre-historic cultural genesis? |
| And if so, do they have ethnical character and fundamental linguistic elements in common too? |
| Could the Iberians be a part of this culture? |
| Please, answer my questions and comment on my reflections. |
| Best regards, |
| David P. Arriaga, Bilbao (España ) |
| P.S. Are your monographs about Venetiani translated into Spanish or English (or Italian)? |
| Dr. Šavli's comment to David P. Arriaga's letter: |
| Many thanks for your letter and for so many data quality issues. Indeed, they are proof, that a migration wave of the Veneti, the bearers of the Urnfield culture (after 1200 BC), also reached the Iberian peninsula. A "monograph" about the Veneti does not exist in Spanish, it exists in Italian (1990) and in English (1996). However, these books do not deal with the chapter concerning the Veneti in Spain. We are talking about a new field of research, which until now I had no possibility to further examine. In the first line I dedicated my studies to Middle Europe, i.e., to the area between the Baltic and Adriatic Sea, where after the Urnfield migrations a continuous Venetic territory was established. Later, I individuated also the penetration of the Veneti to India, very probably toward 1150 BC. |
| Recently, I discovered, that the Slovieni (Russia), mentioned by the well-known chronicler Nestor (11th century BC), very probably had their origin in the Veneti, adduced by Tacitus in the 1st century AD (Germania 46), that they are making incursions in the area of Fenni (Finns). See Forum Veneti Part I, article: The Slovieni in Carantha. But what Spain concerns, there I could only individuate several indices of Venetic settlement. |
| In this connection I want to draw your attention to Carlos Camino's contribution, published here in Carantha under |
| Spain, a Venetic Name? articles: |
|
Veneti - Update about the linden tree, the word "carant" and the name Spane, and | |
|
Coincidences found in different Spanish cultures and folklore also | |
|
Spain, is it in its origin a Venetic name? (Tiene el nombre de España un origen Veneto?) | |
| My present-day opinion is, that the migration wave of theVeneti, which reached the Iberian Peninsula, did not become a dominant stratum but rather amalgamated with the older inhabitants there. Of course, they left many traces behind, especially in the field of agriculture. What occurred with the posterior wave, that of the Celts, who in their migrations also arrived in Spain, is not known to me. But I think, the denomination "Celtoiberians" is not substantiated sufficiently. |
| In this connection, it is not very likely that the Suebi, who settled north-western Spain, were of Celtic origin. Their name rather denotes the "Slavs", like the primordial Suebi (Schwaben) in Germany. The name Suebi or Suabi indicates the Slavi (the sound l still today is sometimes pronounced as u, for example in the Slovenian dialect of Carinthia). The first Veneti in Middle Europe, it is true, can also be identified as "Slavs". Anyway, since the Venetic (Slav) language is extending over the peoples of Eastern Europe, the Slav speaking races in that area cannot be identified anymore with the Veneti. In the same way, as the Americans, Australians and others are not English, and the peoples of Latin America are not Spaniards… |
| Furthermore, it seems that the Vandals, a people of Scandinavian origin, still spoke the Venetic (Slav) language, when they, after the decline of the Roman Empire, settled for a certain time in Spain. In this way, any "Slav" name appearing there can be explained. Luis Alfonso Carballo, the author of the book Antiguedades y Cosas Mernorables del Principado de Asturias (Madrid 1695) says, that Grado in the language of the Vandals just means ciudad (city). |
| Again, I want to pay attention to the studies of the linguist Charles Bryant-Abraham published in the Journal of Ancient and Medieval Studies (The Octavian Society, Daggett, California XVIII: 2001). The study bears the title Refinements and Future Directions in Venetic Scholarship which is part of World Slovenian Congress on Venetology. Among other things, the author also mentions the inscriptions in the Venetic script, which recently were discovered in Spain. Cf. Julio Caro-Baroja, "La Escritura en la España Preromana (Epigrafia Numismatica)", in La España Primitiva. Vol. II La Protohistoria, by Martin Almagro Basch and Antonio Garcia y Bellido pp. 685 ff. |
| September 12, 2004 |
| Buongiorno, |
| mi chiamo Angelo Leban, nato a Milano da madre sloveva di cui porto anche il cognome. Scusate se non scrivo la lingua slovena ma conosco solo il dialetto di una vallata di Tolmino, lo Zadlasko. Navigando sul vostro sito ho visto una piantina geografica che segnava il territorio originale del popolo sloveno, se non sbaglio in Russia vicino al mar di Finlandia. Mi potete mandare il documento in quanto non riesco più ad aprire quella pagina. In una recente mia ricerca su libri di testo, ho letto che gli Sloveni arrivarono nella attuale Slovenija dalla Pannonia, regione tra il fiume Sava e Danubio ad est di Vienna. Qual'c la vera terra di origine del popolo sloveno???? |
| Vi ringrazio e cordialmente saluto |
| Angelo Leban |
| Note to Angelo Leban from the Carantha editorial staff - Many thanks for your kind letter. It is true, that the search for the original country of the Slovenian people always presented a (rather ideological) question, which was never resolved in a satisfactory manner. Since the 19th century until recent times, the university people and academicians in particular, have adduced that the Slovenians originated from the area behind the Carpathian Mountains. Their "Slavic" ancestors were supposed to have arrived in the Balkans and in Pannonia as early as in the second half of the 6th century AD. There are no proofs to verify such explanation, the academic authority was sufficient to support its credibility. The knowledge, that the Slovenians together with the Western Slavs descend from the Veneti, a pre-Roman and pre-Celtic people, gradually is put in force and is extending more and more. |
| August 22, 2004 |
| Hello! I am an admirer of your website, because I am a truthful Slovene. I read the article about the new Commemorative Plaque dedicated to one of our great Slovenian men, Prof. Dr. Lambert Ehrlich. The memorial has been erected on Slovenian soil in the western part of the Sv. Višarje mountain. I personally have great respect for Prof. Ehrlich, because of his indefatigable efforts on behalf of the Slovene people. At the beginning of the WW2 he initiated the idea of an independent Slovenia. Prof. Ehrlich was quite conscious of the fact, that at the right moment, the best option for the Slovenians was to establish an independent Slovenian State. He imagined a Central European confederation, which he called Intermarium (i.e., the territory between the Baltic Sea in the north and the Adriatic Sea in the South. This confederation should have protected Central Europe from imperialism of the Communist Soviet Union (Russia) and also from expansionism of the western forces. |
| From such a conception of subjectivity clearly emerges, that Ehrlich foresaw already at the beginning of the WW2 the defeat of the two central forces, the Nazi regime of Germany and the Fascist regime of Italy. At the same time, he had the vision that the Slovenian people in their Independent State would have escaped their biggest enemy, the regime of Great-Serbia. Nevertheless, Prof. Ehrlich was completely powerless to execute this plan, because the then Slovenian leadership opposed him. The so-called Liberation Front (the partisans) was controlled by the Communist Soviets, who were against an independent Slovenia. |
| Already at the end of the WW1, the biggest mistake that Slovenians made was to ally themselves with Serbs and Croats. At that time, the imperialistic great-Serbian Belgrade regime practically sold a large portion of Slovenian ethnical territory to Italy (Treaty of Rapallo, 1920), and another part was handed over to Austria in a similar way (in the Plebiscite of 1920). Later, the same regime annexed further parts of historical Slovenian territory to Croatia (as to increase the Serbo-Croatian speaking area). Not only, did it try to destroy the Slovenian economy, but it also wanted to annihilate the Slovenian culture, intellectual classes, language, true history and national identity. The same regime did not intervene, when Fascist Italy, between WW1 and WW2, began to perform genocide in Slovenian ethnical communities, which came under its control. Moreover, it secretly even assisted Italy, to persecute members of the illegal Slovenian home guard there. This guard bore the name TIGR (abbreviation for Trst, Istra, Gorica, Reka) and fought against aggressive Italian occupation. We came to know, that in this period several TIGR-members (who knows how many?) were transported to Serbian jails, and not one of them returned. |
| The friendship between great-Serbian circles and Italy was first of all directed against the Slovenian population. This became evident at the beginning and during the WW2, when in Slovenia the Communist Party, subjected to Stalin, headed the Liberation Front. In the name of the Revolution, Slovenian patriots and intellectual classes were slaughtered who did not adhere to the Communist views. Among the same group of partisans numerous boys and men were killed. Evidently, the victorious Revolution was only a pretext to carry out these atrocities. The very reason for this "ethnic cleansing" of Slovenian territory was for the Yugoslav (great-Serbian) nation to expand. |
| One of these thousands of victims was Prof. Ehrlich. As already said, when he launched the Independent Slovenian State idea, neither the Slovenian leading circles nor the Slovenian public could have imagined such freedom. At that time, the conception of the great Slav people and the Southern Slavs in general, of who the Slovenians should be a part of, completely prevailed in the public's mind. At the beginning of the 30s, the same Prof. Ehrlich imagined Europe as the homeland of the Germans, Romans and Slavs. Indeed, his point of view, at this time, is expressed in the inscription on his memorial plaque (1933). It was a big mistake, even if it has not been perceived yet at that time, because Slovenians are not a Slav race, (which does not exist at all). The Slavs are a linguistic family only, and certainly cannot be considered as a Slav race. In that period, the Slovenian intellectual classes did not pay attention to this fact, or perhaps, it did not matter to them, because they were much too busy to form a friendly relationship with big Russia (Soviet Union) as a counter-weight against the German and Italian expansionism. Therefore, the big lie, that Slovenians pertained to the group of such imagined Slavs, who needed the protection of their great brother Russia, was intentionally ignored. |
| Besides, the pilgrimage church of Sv. Višarje is located on Slovenian ethnic territory and was always a Slovenian religious and cultural legacy. In history, there were no "Slavs" but only Slovenians. Whenever any other Slav set foot on our territory, he did that because of malevolence. During the big wars other Slav nations did not help us, but only injured us. Evidently, later Prof. Ehrlich's idea of an independent Slovenia widely outgrew the aforesaid opinions concerning Europe and the Slovenians. And this very idea, which he left in his national and human message to his Slovenian countrymen, was the turning-point in their life. It is my strong believe that for this reason, the not quite correct words, which Prof. Ehrlich expressed at one occasion, do not belong on his memorial plaque. |
| (signature withheld) |
| cf: Concealed and Forgotten Persons, articles: |
|
The Commemorative Plaque of Prof. Lambert Ehrlich (English) | |
|
Remembering Univ. Prof. Dr. Lambert Ehrlich (English) | |
|
Prof. Lambert Ehrlich (Slovenian) | |
|
Svete Visarje (Slovenian) | |
| August 7, 2004 |
| In consideration of the inscription dedicated to god Belin, I would like to draw readers' attention to a German book called "Die alten Sitten Europas - originae europeae" (Ancient Customs of Europe - originae europeae) by Lorenz Diefenbach, Frankfurt/Main 1864. It is very interesting what the author quotes. He says, among other things, that the ancient Noricans, (a kingdom and then a Roman province in the Eastern Alps, Carantania in the Middle Ages - my obs.), worshiped god Belenus or Belin. Because of his appellatives Noricis Belenus, Apollini Beleno (he was compared with Apollo - my obs.) etc., Diefenbach, in one passage in the book, called him no less then a "norischer Nationalgott Belis" (Norican national god Belis). Evidently, the name Belis, from which Veles (b > v) could have developed, was widely spread, too. In Breton, the general name for druidic priests was belec, which could have been a connection to Belen or Belin. Further on, the same author implies, that this god (because compared with Apollo) was the sponsor of a plant called herba Apollinaris, in Slovenian trava sv. Apolonije. Moreover, by very frequent alternations of the consonant (b > v), Diefenbach considers the well-known wormwood (Artemisia absinthium), too, as one of Belin's plants. It is trading under the name pelin (Slovenian), pelinos (Lithuanian), pellin (Estonian), pellenes (Latvian), piolun (polish), pelind (Albanian). - Both, Apollo and Belin were known as healing gods. If I am correctly informed, in Slovenia, still today a special vermouth is made from wormwood, and is called pelincovez. It is highly appreciated for its medical properties. |
| (cf: Slovenian Mythology, articles: "An inscription dedicated to god Belin", and God Belin") |
| Ivano Trevisan, Veneto (Italy) |
| August 5, 2004 |
| Herman de Carinthia was like others in various historical periods - someone who did not believe in borders - and borders did not exist for him. |
| Prof. Dr. Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommantis |
| Alexandria, Egypt |
| Email: mhmd7shams7meg@yahoo.fr. |
| Note: |
| Prof. Megalommantis is an authority in Ancient History, Religions, and Languages of the Middle East. Author of articles and 10 books, he is also a regular contributor to Yemen Times in Yemen. He is also a visiting professor in Greece and Turkey. |
| (cf: Science and Literature, article Herman de Carinthia) |
| Irena Knehtl |
| Sanaa, Yemen |
| July 20, 2004 |
| The vivacious activity of the »Dr. Francé Prešeren Association« |
| When I was searching the Carantha website, I was quite surprised to learn that the vivacious activity of the »Dr. Francé Prešeren Association« in Moscow is aiming to promote good relations between Russia and Slovenia. The main merit of this activity evidently goes to Just Rugel, the vigorous and indefatigable chairman of the association. He undertook many projects in order to re-establish a basic cultural and economical collaboration between the two nations, the way it used to be in the period before the WW1, but which were broken off by the Communist revolution. |
| Of course, when reading the articles published by the Association, I cannot completely agree with the authors' opinions. For example, it is true, that Mme Natalia Narotchnickaya, a member of the Russian Academy, delineates in a very persuasive manner the present-day situation in Russia. In my opinion, however, the consequences of the former Communist and Soviet regime influenced the life conditions of the Russian people. The effect of its expansionism and imperialism is not treated with the proper weight. Contrary to what is suggested in her articles, the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia were certainly not destroyed by America and its modern imperialism. The Soviet Union declined, because the aforesaid regime not only exhausted its economical capacities but even the people's cultural and moral values. Such guilt for the decay of the Communist system in Russia, as well as in other Eastern European countries, must be researched first of all, in their incapability to assure the survival of their nations. |
| I think, however, these nations still possess enough resources to make a new ascent. But this can only be achieved through a moral restoration of their social structure. It is true, that the Orthodox Church could play an important role in this task. America itself became great not only because of its geographical extent and because of its economical system of free market, but also because of its respect of freedom, democracy, human rights and, not at least, because of its »Puritanism«. This is, to respect the moral values, which for the most part has been absent in the countries under Communist regimes. |
| Matjaž Peterka, Slovenia |
| *** |
| June 15, 2004 |
| I read Mr. Jagodzinski's (with "an acute") letter concerning the Venetic Theory (authors: Šavli, Bor Tomažic). Jagodzinski's performance of criticism is long and less synoptic. It is also missing the civilized way of discussion. For example, he denotes the Venetic Theory as follows: »It is a rousing lie«. The Slovenian authors of the theory he labels as »Slovene nationalists«. The style of his discussion is generally rough, and it seems that he is trying to impose his views in an aggressive way when arguments are missing. |
| Evidently, Mr. Jagodzinski did not read the book of the Slovenian authors which he is criticizing. Otherwise, he could not have told to Mr. Gorše (editor of the website) the following: »Not hardly, but obviously, you do not appear to even be aware that the Venetic Theory was originally proposed by Polish scholars Kostrzewski, Kozlowski, Czekanowski, Stojanowski, Lehr-Splawinski and others...« |
| If I would have commented on Jagodzinski's assertion and used his own style, I also would have written down: »a lie«. Anyway, I suppose he overlooked the contents of the first part of the above mentioned book only hastily, in which its author, Dr. Šavli, is also summarizing the findings of the Polish scholars. Moreover, based on their research, he constructed the Venetic Theory. Dr. Šavli, who obviously does not know Polish, took over the findings of the Polish scholars through the work of Carlo Verdiani, who, in a summarized way, already in the 50th published in Italian language the discoveries of the Polish scholars. |
| As I noticed, the Polish scholars still searched the roots of the Slavs and not of the Veneti. In contrast to this, Dr. Šavli does not consider the »Slavs« as an ethnic group, but as a linguistic family only. The »ancient Slavs«, from whom the Slav peoples should have descended, are only an academic construction. It is the same thing, as if the Americans, Australians, Canadians, ... would have a common origin based on the English language only. |
| The people of Veneti, whose name the linguist Matej Bor considers an abbreviation of the Sloveneti or Sloventi, found Dr. Šavli in his interdisciplinary study as a pre-historical and even pre-Celtic ethnic group. It is true, that he quoted the findings of the Polish scholars, but he completed the paper through his own studies (nomenclature, ethnology, sociology, ancient law...). But instead of the imaginary »ancient Slavs« he discovered the concrete people of Veneti. |
| Of course, the new Venetic Theory hit the ancient nationalistic ideologies, which have been, and still are, dictated to the academic circles by the state apparatus. The latter, because they are financed by the apparatus, must obey. And this is the essence of all! |
| (Signature withheld) |
| *** |
| June 7, 2004 |
| The quality of a product is largely determined by the symbol of its trademark, which is an essential tool to build consumer satisfaction. However, the legendary Milka logo on the century-old chocolate brand has a very particular origin. The Swiss chocolatier, or maybe his son, was deeply in love with Milka, a Slovenian girl from Istria, and an opera singer by profession, who worked on stage in Switzerland before the WW1. We do not know, how this love story unfolded. But we do know that the chocolatier built her a long lasting memorial by naming his new chocolate product "Milka" in her honour. This trademark became the world known expression for quality chocolate, which actually is the very sonorous name of a Slovenian girl. |
| Matjaž Peterka, Slovenia |
| *** |
| April 25, 2004 |
| Greetings from Sanaa, Yemen! |
| Please receive my congratulations for your excellent and informative site Carantha. |
| Please keep it up. |
| Best wishes and regards |
| Irena Knehtl |
| Sanaa, Yemen |
| Irena Knehtl |
| POBOX 14314 |
| Sanaa, Yemen |
| Web site: www.geocities.com/iren_knehtl/ |
| *** |
| April 11, 2004 |
| Spoštovani g. Snoj, |
| Pred tedni ste objavili v Književnih listih prispevek "Etimološke razglednice iz zamejstva". Ne bom se spušcal v Vaša etimološka izvajanja in morebiten komentar - kot strela iz jasnega neba pa me je v tekstu presenetila Vaša trditev, da so se predniki današnjih Slovencev priselili na današnje ozemlje iz SEVEROVZHODNE EVROPE. |
| Ta Vaša trditev je revolucionarno nova, kajti v tozadevni svetovni strokovni literaturi te osupljive teorije še nisem uspel zaslediti. Doslej sem bil namrec trdno preprican, da je Zakarpatje s svojimi mocvarami tista naša ljubljena prvotna domovina - tista Praslovenija, na katero smemo in moramo biti vsi Slovenci ponosni - zdaj pa naenkrat ta Vaša trditev, ki vso dosedanjo zgodovino Slovencev postavlja na glavo. |
| Ker sam živim že od leta 1972 v tkim. Severnovzhodni Evropi, Vas vljudno prosim, da mi postrežete z bolj natancnimi podatki o tej naši novi slovenski pradomovini. Je to morda današnja Finska, Švedska, Pribaltik ali pa morda finska ali pa ruska Kardelija? Nemudoma se bom poglobil v lokalne zgodovinske arhive in na svojo roko zacel tudi s kakšnimi arheološkimi izkopavanji. |
| Vzpodbujen od Vaših etimoloških izvajanj v gornjem sestavku (predvsem glede etimologije imen Trsta in Save npr.) naj Vam zaupam rezultate najnovejših finskih etimoloških raziskav. Tako so npr. doktorji - znanstveniki ugotovili, da je ime mesta Turku nastalo po tistem, ko so ga poimenovali po nekem Turku, ki je prvi pred davnimi, davnimi stoletji odprl prvo kebab restavracijo v tej bivši finski prestolnici. Glede izvora švedskega imena Åbo za isto mesto pa etimologi niso (še) našli skupnega jezika - eni pravijo, da so bili prvi prebivalci Turkuja verjetno abotni, drugi pa se nagibajo k razlagi, da je ime v nekakšni zvezi s škofi ali pa apostoli. |
| S prijateljskimi pozdravi in v upanju, da nas boste kmalu spet osrecili s kakšnim originalnim pronicljivim delom v tej smeri. |
| Dr. prof. (h.c.) Milan V. Smolej, |
| Suvikuja 4, FI-02120 Espoo |
| trgovski svetnik republike Finske v Bagdadu (81-83) |
| uradni pooblašcenec RS na Finskem (91-93), clan ZVVS |
| dosje UDBE st. 001402-11279 - poklic-tuji diplomat (?) |
| *** |
| February 23, 2004 |
| Slovenian Cardinals |
| Recently, Dr. Franc Rode, Archbishop and Metropolite of Lublana, was appointed head of a Congregation of the Roman Curia, and soon he will assume a post in the Vatican. The heads of the Curia offices are usually cardinals, and in this connection the post-Communist mass media in Slovenia launched a sensation, that Dr. Franc Rode could become the "first" Slovenian cardinal. However, in this case Dr. Rode will not be a "Slovenian" but a Curian cardinal of Slovenian descent. Like Dr. Ambrožic, Archbishop of Toronto, who is a Canadian cardinal of Slovenian origin. |
| When we look back in history, we find other cardinals originating from Carantanian lands, who, after their origin, could be designated as Slovenians. The first enumerated cardinal was Count Franz of Dietrichstein, Archbishop of Olomouc (1599 - 1636) in Moravia, a descendant of a noble Carinthian family. In second place must be mentioned Count Max Gandolf of Kuenburg, Archbishop of Salzburg (1668 - 1687), nominated Cardinal in 1686. His family originated from the Zila Valley in Carinthia. In Passau followed one after the other on Bishops and Cardinals: Johannes Philip of Lambert (1673 - 1723) and his nephew Bishop and Cardinal Joseph Dominicus of Lamberg (1723 - 1762). The Lambergs have been a famous family of Carniola. |
| Of course, they all were Austrian cardinals, but Austria is only a continuation of ancient Carantania. For example, Archbishop Jakob Missia of Gorica (1898 - 1902) was nominated Cardinal in 1899. He was also an Austrian and at the same time a Slovenian cardinal. If the purple colour of the cardinal's robe for many centuries represented martyrdom for the Faith, then the Slovenian people have already several more cardinals in the church of God, starting with Prof. Lambert Ehrlich, Bishop Gergorij Rožman, Bishop Anton Vovk and many others. |
| Maribor |
| *** |
| February 22, 2004 |
| I want to express my appreciation and gratitude to the people who have constructed your web site. |
| The combination of your web site and the writings of Bernard Meares "Where the Balkans Begin" have shed light on my past. |
| I was born in Dekani in 1952 and was told by my mother that I was able to speak Slovenian quite well by the time I was one year old. However, my parents decided to emigrate from post-war "Yugoslavia" and we moved to Trieste in 1955 where we were held in Campo Marcio pending our clearance for emigration. We remained there until about 1957. |
| As a youth I had been curious about my origins (particularly since my parents always spoke Slovenian at home, and I was not able to do so and, somehow I was always resentful of that) and I would inquire. Only after persistent inquiries, would my mother give answers, and then only vague and tert responses. My father refused to talk about the "Old Country". |
| Among those answers were references to our stay in the Italian camp and the fact that my father had been told not to speak Slovenian (he had apparently gotten work in some Italian business while at the camp) nor to allow his family to speak Slovenian either. This of course resulted in me gradually losing my ability to speak my mother tongue and I wound up "communicating" with my parents in a bastardized form of Italian. |
| I never pursued those clues to my past too forcibly as other attempts to gain information from either the then Yugoslavs or the Italians was always met with "red tape". Of course, now that I'm middle aged and, thanks to the power of the Internet, I have discovered your site. |
| I will continue to read the parts of your web site which have been translated into English. They have been a tremendous help in discovering both my origins and the potential roots of some emotional aspects of my personality. |
| I was shocked to read that vandalism against Slovenian monuments still goes on but, if the fascistas can burn our Slovenian cultural house while the police stand idly by, then this attitude of vandalism, and hate, will continue. |
| Once again, thank you for your web site. |
| Sincerely, |
| Oliver Obad |
| Canada |
| *** |
| February 20, 2004 |
| Just came across your website and am very impressed! What a wonderful resource! |
| If possible, please keep me posted on your efforts and any information regarding your website and/or publications. |
| Best regards, |
| Paul L. Scamperle |
| Phoenix, AZ |
| Dear Paul, |
| Thank you for your kind words of appreciation for our Carantha publication. |
| Editor's comment: |
| This kind of opinion we would like to hear also from our so called free Slovenia. After so many years of independence they are still teaching in schools the wrong history of the country. |
| February 16, 2004 |
| Dragi g. Jezovnik, |
| Thank you for taking the time to sign the guestbook at my Gorsha [Gorse] Family Homepage website, and for offering your kind words of encouragement. There certainly are times when one wonders whether anyone is truly appreciative of all the effort that is involved in proofreading, transcribing and maintaining all the information made available on the web. I, for one, do appreciate everything that you have done and continue to do to provide good information on your Carantha website. I have been checking in on it periodically now for several years, and usually find some new tidbit to chew on, either something completely new to the site or else something that I somehow missed in earlier perusals. |
| Keep up the good work! |
| Lep pozdrav, |
| Gary L. Gorsha (Gorse), B.S., M.S. |
| President, Pacific Northwest Chapter |
| Slovenian Genealogy Society International |
| http://www.angelfire.com/wa2/SGSIpnw/ |
| January 26, 2004 |
| Russia incorrectly misrepresents… |
| In my search for Carantha on the Internet, I accidentally came across the website called "Avstrija ot A do JA" written in Russian language and in Cyrillic characters, which gives a brief characterization of our web page and of my personality. Everyone would be pleased to receive such an attention for his work from the outside world. In this case, however, I was more then surprised about the incorrectly misrepresents and mistakes concerning my articles and personal data. |
| If I am not mistaken, the aforesaid Carantha device is presenting me as a "professor in Russia". In fact, I am teaching at the Slovenian Secondary School for Commerce in Gorizia, in the area of Trieste (Italy), where numerous Slovenian communities are to be found. Prior to that, I studied at the University of Lublana (Slovenia) and then I graduated at the University of Vienna (Austria). Thereafter, I nostrificated the doctor's degree at the Ca' Foscari University (Venice). It is true that I am interceding with several articles and critical studies the field of Slovenian history, too, in the interpretation of which I discovered a lot of defects as well as falsifications. |
| One of them, a very serious one, has been reiteratively reported by the author of the Carantha device of the "Avstrija ot A do JA" website. He is very probably not aware of the fact to repeat a falsification concerning the ancient Carantania (Carinthia), that he obstinately is replacing with Stryria. But the latter, first a Carantanian March, became a dukedom called Styria as early as in 1180 AD. The ancient Slovenian statehood was kept away by Carinthia, and then by Austria. Its name extended over all the Carantanian provinces, after they were in possession of the Habsburgs, the House of Austria. |
| I imagine, that the ancient Soviet regime, in opposition to this historical fact, wide-spread the name "Styria" in Russian literature and publications, as to ignore Carantania, which has been mentioned in the records already in 595 AD. In this way it became the first Slovenian State and, if one wants, also the first Slav one. But here is the problem! Great Russia, neither that of Kiev nor that of Novgorod, was not the first Slav state. A disagreeable thing of national pride and dignity on the level of elementary school. Therefore the existence of Carantania was concealed and its continuation in the posterior Carinthia was confused with Styria. |
| This occurred in the period of the Soviet regime, but it is already several years now that Russia is free, and its intelligentsia had plenty of time to clarify the problem. But nothing of that kind was done, and "Styria" continues to be repeated infinitely (poor Russia!). But the author of the above-mentioned device still surpasses the ancient regime, inasmuch as he asserts: ... one should have in sight the materials, which Dr. Jožko Šavli makes known to the curious Slovenian nationalists, who labour for an imminent association of Slovenia and Styria... Of course, an insinuation! The truth is definitely the contrary! In fact, I am working as to discover the concealed historical truth concerning the Slovenians, for the purpose of a better understanding and collaboration among the people of Middle Europe. |
| So, I am asking myself, why would a "Slav" brother try to defame my endeavours? The Russian people, which I appreciate so much for their benevolence, are good-minded, and I regret that they are in the hands of the opinion makers, who are trying to create in their mind such obsolete models of yesterdays thinking. |
| Dr. Jožko Šavli, Gorica - Gorizia (Italy) |
| *** |
| November 26, 2003 |
| Celtic ideology on the march? |
| On the margin of an academic encounter called "Celticism on the Frontier"? |
| held on November 21 - 23, 2003 in Udine (Friuli, Italy) |
| Traces of one-time Celtic settlements were never found in Friuli. Nor have they been found in nearby Venetia. It is true, however, that if the academic "science" is financed well enough, it is in a position to conjure up Celts all over Europe. Evidently we are dealing here with a new type of ideology, a Celtic one. Several regions of Europe give financial support to "Celtic" celebrations, for example "the night of the witches", which are supposed to be linked to Celtic customs. It seems, that even Asterix, the famous Celtic hero of (comic) strips, was not only an amusement for young people but also the first step towards the introduction of the Celtic ideology. |
| Indeed, lately we have witnessed how extra ideological pressure has been focussed on the artificial revival of "Celtic" traditions. It is carried out through academic circles, which evidently receive instructions from their superiors, who in turn are highly paid by their financiers. Many academic seminars, studies and scientific encounters concerning the Celts and "Celtic" topics, receive funding and participation from public institutions, such as universities, museums, etc. Once these studies are completed, they attempt to implant, in the public's mind, the notion that the Celtic idea is scientific "truth". with the Celtic idea in magnitude of the "scientific" truth. In most cases this results in a misuse of academic freedom since, apart from the Celtic subject matter, no other explanations of Europe's prehistoric past are presented. |
| Many Europeans are questioning, who is this secret promoter and financial supporter of the new ideology? Some of them point the finger at France and England, or better said, to their Masons, and they, of course, feel disappointed. They already had bad experience with ideologies based on ideological features of the "ancient Germans" (Nazi regime of Germany), or the "ancient Romans" (Fascist regime of Italy), or even the "ancient Slavs" (Communist regime of Russia), and so on. Now the "ancient Celts" are pulling in. Indeed, we do not need a new ideology, through which the "very" Celtic descendants, namely the French and the English, would obtain "historical" substantiated prestige and play the predominant role in the future of Europe. Not at last, such a "Celtic" ideology is directed against the Christian tradition of Europe. |
| Nowadays, even Germany, Italy, and Russia acknowledge their one-time ideological and military imperialism. But England and France do not realize this. They never condemned their true colonialism and imperialism, where numerous crimes were committed. For example, Napoleon Bonaparte, the "famous" conqueror and instigator of wars in the 19th century, is still presented in schools as a hero and bearer of progress in the prior reactionary Europe. |
| It seems to be unusual, that the impact of such a violent introduction of a new ideology did not reach the American continent, which boasts itself of being the "mother" of democracy and freedom. Nor was any notice taken by the well-known newspapers, the Washington Post and the New York Times, of which one says, that they are creating the world's mind. Did this happen by chance, or was it done intentionally, because, after all, America, too, belongs to the Anglo-Saxon world? On the other hand it is also true, that the good-hearted Americans were always the last ones to individuate at the right time the focal points of new political tensions. In particular if they appeared at the beginning only as innocent ideologies. |
| Signature withheld |
| Padua (Italy) |
| January 23, 2004 |
| Pozdravljeni. |
| Zahvaljujemo se vam za tako izcrpno spletno stran o nas in nasih pravih koreninah, ki so nam jih leta tuje nadvlade zanikala. Ukvarjamo se z gostovanjem spletnih stran in registracijo domen. Oboje vam zelimo podariti, da stran ne bo na tako neuglednem naslovu. Za vas smo ze registrirali domeno carinthia.com in ce zelite vam bomo poslali se podatke za dostop do streznika in kontrolne plosce. Vse to vam podarjamo brez obveznosti v zahvalo za vas doprinos k boju za slovenstvo. |
| Sporocite nam se, ce imate kaksne dodatne zahteve glede specifikacije prostora na strezniku. |
| Lep pozdrav, |
| AFEKT.NET |
| Gostovanje in registracija domen |
| Trzaska 2, Ljubljana, Slovenia |
| T: 386 1 426 72 32 |
| F: 386 1 425 81 68 |
| M: 386 41 569 905 |
| E: info@afekt.net |
| W: http://www.afekt.net/ |
| November 25, 2003 |
| Please keep up the good work on the history of the Slovenian people and nation. I only wish that my father could have the same experience of discovering the true history of the Slovenian people. He would be proud! Mom is 97 and doesn't understand the implications any more, bless her sole. |
| I grew up among the Slovene emigrant community in the Detroit area. What joyous times we all had. |
| My only regret is my parents never taught me the language. |
| Signature withheld |
| Arizona, USA |
| November 8, 2003 |
| Could it be said, that the Slavica lex was the first historical incidence of women's suffrage in Europe? |
| signature withheld |
| Arizona, USA |
| Dr. Savli's Comment : |
| Thank you for your interesting question. It is with great pleasure that I take advantage of this opportunity to present the problem more clearly. - Based on the example of Carantania - Slovenia, one can really say, that its institutio Sclavenica (Slavica lex) was the first in Europe, that granted women the right to vote. It is true, that the historical sources do not provide us with further detailed information. However, documented examples show, that women were elected, which brings us to the conclusion, that they also had the right to vote. In Carantania, we even had an elected duchess (cf. Artikel "Carantanian Lady"). |
| A woman's right to vote was natural in villages, when a Zupan (mayor) had to be elected. However, men were usually sent as delegates to the National Assembly, called Veca, where they elected the new duke. Long hours of horseback riding caused also major problems, which were not easy to bear for a lady. But that does not mean, that ladies did not take part at all in the Veca. |
| From the 12th century on, the feudal order prevailed also in Carantanian lands. The role of the Veca (the parliament) was taken over by the Provincial Diets. On the national level the installation of the duke was replaced with the right of succession. But the village maintained its tradition of the ancient social order in sense of the institutio Sclavenia. - Feudalism had Frankish - Germanic roots, and did not allow women to play a role in public life or in the political field. In Carantanian lands, we find however examples, where women exercised public functions also in feudal times. The right of succession, for example, applied also to the female line. For instance, the Counts of Cilli succeeded in the female line the Counts of Heunburg (Vovbre). |
| Further examples can be found in the county of Goerz. There, after Count Henry II died († 1323), the rulership of the country was passed on to his widow Beatrix. She was a very decisive lady. Even the Patriarch of Aquileia appointed her as general captain of Friuli. Obviously, it was not out of the ordinary for ladies to play repeatedly the first role in the government of Goerz. The Counts of Goerz, however, were also Palatinates of Carantania (Kärnten), and in 1391, Duke Albert III had to issue a decree, that the title palatinate could not be succeeded in the female line. The office of the palatinate (royal deputy) was an institution of the Frankish - Germanic lex Salica, which did not recognize public rights for women. In contrast to this, a female had the right to reign in Carantanian lands, and this only in the sense of the institutio Sclavenica. |
| Thus, although it does not apply to modern times, we can say, nevertheless, that the institutio Sclavenica was the first in Europe, which gave women the right to vote. |
| November 4, 2003 |
| Gorizia honours Luigi Faidutti! |
| It may be a coincidence, but it is true that, after Carantha published an article on Archbishop Sedej, which also mentions the exemplary priest and politician Luigi Faidutti, the Institute for Social and Religious History in Gorizia - Gorica organized a conference at the end of Octobre, 2003. Among the participants were three reporters and professors from Gorizia, Trieste and Udine, who spoke about Faidutti's life and work. They also pointed out, that the personality and role of this outstanding priest, politician and social worker was concealed from the public for many long years. The chairman of the Institute ended with the words, that in future one still will speak of Faidutti. It is true, however, that the use of fine words became customary in Gorizia a long time ago. |
| Signature withheld |
| *** |
| Golden St. Justus Prize |
| for Boris Pahor |
| In Trieste, the Association of Journalists and Chroniclers is awarding each year the Golden Prize of St. Justus, the martyr and protector of the city, to a person, who, in the current year, made exceptional contributions with his work to the international prestige of the city. This time, the prize was given to Boris Pahor, the Slovenian writer, and a native of Trieste, with the consent of all editors. - In Carantha, we recently have published an article about Boris Pahor and his literary work on the occasion of his 90th birthday. Now, we are delighted to hear, that his literary and cultural message, which made an imprint on the world of the 20th century, has been universally acknowledged. We congratulate him sincerely! |
| Editor and collaborators of Carantha |
| (cf: Science and Literature, article Boris Pahor) |
| October 19, 2003 |
| Vsepovsod po Zdruzenih drzavah in Evropi obstajajo skriti predalcki ljubezni, ki samo cakajo, da jih odpremo in z njihovo pomocjo potujemo in raziskujemo peteklost. Danes lahko priklicem enega od teh "predalckov" in recem "Moja babica je bila Josephine Versic in vas oce je bil njen bratranec. Jutri se bom zadrzeval v blizini vasega doma in zelim se seznaniti z vami". - Povabijo me v popolnoma tujo hiso, in skupaj raziskujemo druzinsko zgodovino.- Kasneje me morda povabijo celo na kosilo. Predalcek ljubezni ostane za vedno. - Sedaj imam nekoga vec, ki ga lahko obiscem ali mu pisem. Ali pa se znajdem pred vrati cloveka, cigar jezika ne govorim, mu pokazem papir z imenom "Joseph Versic" in on me povabi na kozarcek vina. Tako se seznanim z njim. Tako mi ta krvna vez prinasa nove prijatelje, vec ljubezni. Sorodniki so za vecno, so svetlikajoce se lucke iz nekega kraja na zemljevidu, sorodniki, ki samo cakajo, da jih imam rad in se skupaj z njimi poveselim. |
| Jim, USA |
| October 15, 2003 |
| Letter from Carlos Camino |
| Veneti - Update about the linden tree, the word "carant" and the name Spane |
| Regarding Dr Savli's request whether in "Spain the linden still appears as the tree of life", it is not easy to find linden, and instead of the linden it is the yew tree ("tejo" or "texu" in Spanish languages) the sacred tree in Asturias, and in some other places the pine or the oak. Surprisingly, looking into this issue I discovered that the arms of Gipuzkoa (a province in the Basque Country) reproduce three linden trees. According to the Basque researcher Gorosabel, the three linden trees represent the tribes of vascones, várdulos and caristios (but why not austrigones instead of vascones?). I think, that this could be a proof of venetic origins of some of the most ancient tribes, populating the Iberian peninsula. At the moment, in Spanish literature, any influence found before the Celtic or even Indo-European period should be assigned to the misterious "Ligurians" (ligures in Spanish); notice Gamillscheg from his book "Romanen und Basquen": In the basis of the present Basque Country lived the Ligurians, related and western neighbours of the Vascones, Varduli, Caristii and Antrigones, in a manner that all of them show a relationship with the occidental "Astures", also of Ligurian origins, rather than the Cantabros, who introduced themselves in the western side of the province of Bizkaia. It is the arm of Bizkaia the one with the oak tree and a cross (the famous oak tree of Guernika - figure bizkaia). So we have the Vascones and Cantabros as (Celti)-Iberians, and on the other side the Vardulos, Caristios and Austrigones related to the Ligurians or even the Vends. |
| Carlos Camino, Castilla-Spain |
| (for continuation and Dr. Šavli's comments see Spain, a Venetic name? Veneti - Update about the linden tree, the word "carant" and the name Spane) |
| September 28, 2003 |
| Says Dr. Šavli in his part of the book concerning the ancient Veneti (Vends): ... Even in Britain one can find Venetic names: such as Ventnor on the Isle of Wight or Windsor near London; also the historical Venedotia (Celtic Gwineth, Gwined)... on the northern and southern coasts of Wales... (p. 25). Indeed, the records make also mention of Vindolanda, found at the ancient Roman wall between Carlisle and Newcastle (cf. Robin Birley: Vindolanda, eine römische Grenzfestung am Hadrians Wall, Bergisch Gladbach 1978). It seems, that names like those confirm the presence of the Veneti in Britain, but where did they come from and when and how did they disappear? |
| Signature withheld |
| Dr. Šavli answers: As I remember, I found in archaeological publications the quotation, that during the (Venetic) Hallstatt period (ca. 900 - 400 BC) there were also incursions in the British Isles. I think, these incursions have to be ascribed to the Veneti, who later gradually were absorbed by the autochthon people pertaining to the ancient Atlantic culture. The following incursions during the La Tcne period (ca. 400 - 15 BC) were those of the Continental Celts, who spoke a language very similar to that of the Veneti. In Britain, the Celts predominated over the autochthon people and gave them their Celtic name. But the Celts, after having adopted the language of the indigenous Atlantic people, were also absorbed by the original inhabitants, who began to be known as the Celts. - The language of the present-day Celts we call Insular Celtic, as to differentiate it from the original (Continental) Celtic, very similar to that of the Veneti. In this way, the Venetic names in Britain very probably denote the linguistic isles, in which the people still spoke Venetic or, the similar Continental Celtic, while in other parts already prevailed the language of the autochthon Atlantic people, this is, the present-day (Insular) Celtic. |
| September 13, 2003 |
 |
| On your website I read about the Panther figure, that you describe. Anyway, in heraldic literature we encounter also the quotation, that the Counts of Kißlegg in present-day Swabia (Germany), bore on their shield: Gules (red), a panther rampant Argent (silver, white)." It is but very interesting to point out, that the historical records mention the name Kißlegg already towards the end of the 8th century AD. At that time, a priest named Ratpot dwelt also at this site, who had built a cell, explicitly quoted in 824 AD. The name Ratpot, however, is of Carantanian (Slovenian) origin and derives from the word Ratbod, meaning approximately a "combative". It is not very likely, that Swabian or Bavarian parents gave their children Slovenian names at birth. Therefore, the priest Ratpot of Kißlegg had to be of Carantanian origin. He also might have been the person, who brought the panther figure to this region. As archaeological findings show, at that time, the panther was the most predominant figure among all Christian symbols in Carantania. |
| (Signature withheld) |
| August 7, 2003 |
| Letter from Carlos Camino |
| I came across with Jozko Savli interesting articles on the net when I was looking into the relationship between the Triglav god and the Hindu Trimurti. I found out that Triglav was not exactly an Slav God but a Venetic one, and I began to further enquiry about their origins. Jozko Savli theories could be starting points for some interesting "think tanks" for the european future development: |
| - how Slovenians are discovering their origins and are determined to integrate in the European community united under the diversity of peoples (ethnoplurality), this is a good example to follow for the rest of identity tendencies in Europe. |
| - how the previous civilization to Roman and Celtic (Urnfield Culture...) was the first and perhaps the most deeply rooted as a common culture in today's Europe. |
| - how we are confused about the Celtic ethnicity of many countries when they were just invaders, like the Romans a few years later. The pan-celtism is also a threat since it is based on false assumptions and their origins are also uncertain... |
| All of these things found, need a further study, as well as many others, like the bull symbol, or the easter eggs, etc., all of them found also in certain regions of Spain. |
| Looking forward to hearing from you... |
| Carlos Camino, Castilla-Spain |
| July 25, 2003 |
| Letter from Carlos Camino |
| Hello! |
| I'm a young Spaniard interested in European common origins. Very good work, and valuable even for the Spanish history. Congratulations to Dr. Jozko Savli. I admire all of you and encourage to continue working in this same path, and continuing translations of this book into French, Spanish... |
| I want to point out some coincidences found in different Spanish cultures and folklore: |
| Comparisons and links provided by Carlos Camino are to be found in Forum Veneti Part II |
| Carlos Camino |
| July 26, 2003 |
| Dr. Savli's reply to Carlos Camino: |
| Sincerely, I was pleasantly surprised about the letter from our Spanish friend. It remembered me of the times in the 60s, when I studied economics and tourism in Lublana (Slovenia). Already in that period, Spain gained significant strength in the tourist trade. Therefore, I wrote to the then Spanish Minister of Tourism, Mr. Manuel Fraga Irribarne, for certain information, and he kindly replied by sending me some materials, which served me for my degree thesis. At the same time, I gained knowledge of the magnific Spanish historical and cultural legacy. And not at last, of the beautiful and proud Spanish people, the very "hidalgos", who in the modern world are still able to feel enthusiasm for good things. (for continuation see Spain, a Venetic name? Dr. Savli's comment July 26, 2003) |
| *** |
| July 12, 2003 |
| Vprasanje o pustnih segah |
| Kot izgleda postaja vasa stran izvor informacij za izgradnjo slovenske identitete. |
| Vprasanje, ki ga imam se nanasa na pustne sege, kostume. Kot vemo so nekateri ti obicaji odraz nase nekrscanske, poganske preteklosti. Iz informacij na vasi strani sem uspel razbrati, da je Venetska kultura segala tudi na podrocje juzne Nemcije. Nenavadno podobnost med slovenskimi in schwarzwald-skimi pustnimi navadami in segami sem opazil med pogovorom s sodelavcem s tega nemskega podrocja. Zanima me ali je ze bila narejena kasna raziskava glede tega oziroma ali so ti podatli dosegljivi. |
| Prav tako me zanima ce je ze bila narejena kasna lingvisticna primerjava med slovenskim in Nicois jezikom, ki se govori v Nici. Opazil sem, da dolocene besede zvenijo zelo podobno slovenscini. |
| Se zahvaljujem in lep pozdrav |
| (Signature withheld) |
| Odgovor: |
| Nas pogled: Na straneh Caranthe iznesemo mnoga dejstva kot vprasanja, ki bi jih morali znanstveni krogi zaceti preucevati, pa jih doslej niso, ker so pac morali slediti smernicam ideologije, kot so jo in jo se vedno narekujejo drzavne strukture. Le-te tudi financirajo znanost in na ta nacin pogojujejo njene objave za javnost. Objave pa so oblikovane za podkrepitev idej v prid vladajoce oligarhije. Tudi solski aparat s svojimi programi deluje v istem cilju. V komunisticnih sistemih je to pocetje seglo ze do take meje, da v komunisticno ideologijo nihce vec ni verjel. Kot v tisti priliki o cesarjevi novi obleki, ko je moralo slej ko prej priti na dan: Saj nima nicesar na sebi! |
| Sorodnosti v slovenskimi pustnimi obicaji in onimi v Schwarzwaldu je mogoce pripisati dejstvu, da oboji izhajajo iz nekdanje kulture Venetov. Ta kultura ni bila samo kmecka, v cemer je dosegla svoj tehnicni vrhunec, temvec tudi duhovna. V tem pogledu se je tudi ohranila v kmecki podstati pri narodih Srednje Evrope do danes. In to pomeni, da so deli te podstati prevzeli sicer druge jezike, ohranjali pa so se naprej svojo svojo kulturno oziroma duhovno identiteto. Sodimo, da so iz tega humusa, ki je temeljilo na dozivetju, oblikovali svoja silna umetniška dela tudi taksni ustvarjalci kot Mozart, Beethoven, Goethe, Chopin, Dvorak... pa nas Preseren. |
| Kolikor nam je znano, kake primerjave med slovenscino in jezikom nicois se ni bilo. Tudi podobne primerjave s patois ni bilo, dasi jo je ze ob koncu prve svetvne vojne nakazal hrvaski raziskovalec Ivo Pilar. Vendar je ni nihce nadaljeval. Pac ni ustrezala še danes veljavnim ideologijam, s katerimi politicni rezimi v cilju svojih koristi zavajajo misljenje javnosti. Prijateljski pozdrav! |
| *** |
| June 29, 2003 |
| Spoštovani, |
| Kot Slovenec, pripadnik mlajse generacije se Vam iskreno zahvaljujem za Vase delo pri urejanju te strani. |
| Novica o razpisu za nove slovenske simbole me je navdihnila, da sem malo svojega prostega casa posvetil raziskavam o tem. |
| Tako sem naletel tudi na Vaso spletno stran, ki me je zelo presenetila saj prej nisem vedel o Venetski kulturi skoraj nic. V soli so nas ucili da smo Slovenci juzni slovani in tako naprej. Dejstvo, da je to neresnica me malo skrbi saj skoraj vsi Slovenci danes, ki zivijo v Sloveniji dejansko ne poznajo svoje zgodovine, ki je bila iz sedaj znanih razlogov zamolcana ali potvarjena. Pozivam vse Slovence, ki sedaj vedo resnico, da izrabijo trenutek, ki se mi zdi zelo primeren in ob izboru naših simbolov vztrajajo pri crnem panterju. Pripenjam tudi spletno stran Drzavnega zbora RS kjer je objavljen razpis |
| http://www2.gov.si/dz-rs/wdog_slo.nsf/f0388c8a7a56b49441256b75004566d2/0e6ce95bafef2107c1256d3a003fd22f?OpenDocument |
| Lep Venetski pozdrav! |
| (Signature withheld) |
| *** |
| Venice, June 25th 2003 |
| A message from a visitor! |
| Today I saw your web-site and appreciate the image of the Slovenian people you describe. I am Venetian and I know the ancient links with that land, as it is demonstrated in the forum about ancient Veneti. Carantha can be useful to make Slovenia known in Europe, so that it may enter the EU very soon. |
| Sincerely |
| Edoardo Rubini |
| *** |
| June 24, 2003 |
| AVSTRALSKA SLOVENSKA KONFERENCA |
| SVETOVNEGA SLOVENSKEGA KONGRESA |
| Dragi rojaki, sodelavci in prijatelji |
| Ob prazniku Dneva dravnosti c(estitam domovini Sloveniji in vsem Vam dragi rojaki v domovini in po svetu, ki ste kakorkoli pozitivno prispevali, da Slovenci lahko ponosno praznujemo e 12. rojstni dan naše skupne svobodne domovine! |
| Ob zakljuc(ku mojega 3-letnega mandata kot podpredsednica SSK zadolene za c(ezmorske deele, se Vam zahvaljujem za zaupanje in sodelovanje, bodoc(emu UO SSK in mojemu namestiku(ici) pa elim mnogo uspehov. |
| Zelim Vam veselo praznovanje in toplo pozdravljam iz Avstralije! |
| Joica Gerden |
| Tajnica ASK SSK in p.p. SSK |
| Embassy of the Republic of Slovenia in Australia |
| *** |
| June 15, 2003 |
| Venetski konjenik vse bolj priljubljen! |
| Venetski konjenik z Vaske situle. Ne le, da ga imamo na slovenski osebni izkaznici in v potnem listu (o cemer sem na Caranthi ze pisal), pojavlja se tudi drugod. Na primer, na novem kamnitem spomeniku Rodoljubu osamosvojitvene vojne za Slovenijo, je v sredi tudi plošca z reliefom venetskega konjenika. Spomenik je postavljen na plošcadi geodetskega središca Republike Slovenije (GEOOS), Spodnja Slivna pri Vacah. |
| Slike so na sledecem naslovu: http://www.zvvs.si/Strani/Foto_Geoss_5_03.htm |
| ... Signature withheld |
| Kaj menimo? |
|
Res je, podoba venetskega konjenika, bodisi na osebni izkaznici bodisi na obeleju GEOOS, je lahko korak naprej. Vendar pa le za tiste, ki priznavajo Venete kot naše davne prednike. Da bi bil pod podobo tudi napis, da gre za venetskega konjenika, doslej še nismo opazili. Tako je ustrezeno bodisi tistim, ki se navdušujejo za Venete, kot tudi tistim, ki jih stara jugoslovanska struktura naganja proti njim. Slednji seveda razglašajo, da predstavlja omenjeni konjenik samo podobo na znameniti situli Vace, kar naj bi pomenilo veliko "promocijo" Slovenije v svetu. Situla pa naj bi pripadala seveda "Keltom". - Zveza veteranov vojne za Slovenijo (ZVVS), ki je dne 17. maja letos pri obeleju na Vacah slavila svojo 10-letnico, nima z Veneti nicesar. Njene prireditve so navadno manipuliranje slovenske javnosti. ZVVS bi morala ob svojem prazniku, c(e bi bila sama sebi dosledna, pocastiti tudi spomin na prvo slovensko drzavo, na Karantanijo. Tega pa ji stara vrhuška na vladi, katere pripadnike je nastavil še Beograd, ne dovoli. Oziroma, v nasprotnem primeru ji ne bi dodelila financne podpore. | |
|
Pri Caranthi nismo voljni pisati zgodovine vseh balkanskih drzav. Nasa dejavnost se nanaša na slovensko zgodovino. Tudi nasih simbolov Slovenci ne sposojamo na Balkan. - Tako se pac nekateri, kot ocitno tudi ZVVS, gredo neko naivano folkloro, in z njo nekaj ljudi še preslepijo. Tudi ce pritegnejo samo nekaj ljudi, to sploh ni pomembno. Denar iz javnih sredstev pokasirajo ne glede na njihovo število. Samo da so na "pravi" (neslovenski) liniji. | |
|
Tako preprosto je vse to! | |
| *** |
| June 14, 2003 |
| Spostovani, |
| vidim, da ste med Odmevi objavili pismo bralca, ki vas obvesca o razpisu natecaja za morebitne nove drzavne simbole Republike Slovenije. Celoten rapis in pogoje si lahko ogledate na spletnih straneh Drzavnega zbora RS: (vse skupaj je ena povezava, ceprav morda razbita v vec vrstic!). Lep pozdrav iz Ljubljane, |
| (signature withheld) |
| Uredništvo: Prav lepa hvala za prijazno opozorilo. Kot smo v odgovoru na prejšnje pismo omenili, za nas vprašanje novih drzavnih simbolov Slovenije ne obstaja, in vsled tega sodimo, da je omenjeni "razpis", pa naj bo tudi od samega drzavnega zbora, samo nesmiselno zapravljanje javnega denarja. Koliko bo pa šlo clanom komisije, mogoce tudi vec komisij, ki bodo dospele predloge pregledovale, o njih razpravljale, sklepale, se znova in znova sestajale, potrjevale...? Nazadnje pa, ker se na stroko sploh ne razumejo, spet iznesle kaj podobnega kot zadnjic, ko so potrdile smesen "predlog" nekega Marka Pogacnika... Po drugi strani pa mnogi ljudje v Sloveniji, ki je ze povsem izropana, nimajo delovnega mesta in se komaj prezivljajo. |
 |
| Kar zadeva zgodovinski grb in prapor Slovencev, je bilo v vec študijah postopoma dognano, kakšna sta bila ta simbola v prvotni Karantaniji (10./11.stol.): belo polje in na njem crni panter kot bojni znak. V prvem zgodovinskem viru je omenjen kot grb: crni panter na hermelinovem scitu, kasneje belem (srebrnem). Danasnja velikost prapora bi bila 2 : 3 ali pa 3 : 5. - Sklicevanje, da se sedanje barve "slovenske" zastave naslanjajo na barve grba dezele Kranjske, je gotovo ponaredba. Dejansko gre za ruske barve, ki jih imajo tudi kot slovanske ali panslovanske. Nekdanja Kranjska je imela na zastavi le dve barvi (glej sliko Korenine Part IV). Poleg tega pa slovenska zgodovinska drzavnost ne izvira iz Kranjske, temvec iz Karantanije! |
| *** |
| June 12, 2003 |
| Spostovani Rojaki. |
| Na Internetu sem dobil vaso stran katera je zelo zanimiva in poucljiva. A eno pa ne vemo. - Kaj je to cista resnica, kar je napisano na vasih straneh? Takrat, ko sem zacel osnovno solo v Ljutomeru leta 1944 so nas v solah cisto nekaj drugega ucili in trdili, kaj je Slovenska zgodovina. Nikoli niti z eno besedico niso omenili nobenih Venetov. Ucili so nas, da smo Slovenci zmiraj bli Slovenci in ne Slovani ali pa kaj drugega. Ucili so nas tudi, da so prvotni Slovenci imeli svojo domovino med rekama Dnjeprom in Dnjestrom I.T.D. Kaj takozvani Veneti prihajajo od tam? |
| Le malo so nas ucili o Karantaniji in to le o tem, da so nam dokazovali, da je vecina tistih ljudi, kateri so nas vladali in kakor vi trdite, da so bli "naklonjeni" Slovenskemu narodu takrat, bli le tujci nemskega in avstrijskega porekla, kateri so na koncu vsega le gledali za svoje dobicke in dobro in le malokdaj za dobrobit Slovenskega Naroda. |
| Vi trdite, da vse to, kar je napisano na vasih straneh je prava "Zgodovina Slovenije", katera je napisana od Slovenskega cloveka za Slovence in je misel "vseh" Slovencev? Kje so pa vasi dokazi, da vsi Slovenci tako mislijo? |
| Ne samo jaz, temvec veliko Slovencev v nasi okolici so kar precej zmedeni, ker vec ne vemo kaj je resnica. |
| Drugo. Razvidno je, da obstojajo v Sloveniji dandanes ljudje, kateri ne marajo danasnje zastave in pravega Slovenskega Grba, in samovlade, ter trdovratno kleceplazijo in hocejo z seboj potegniti se ostale Slovence spet v "TUJE ROKE". |
| Jaz osebno se ne zanimam za politiko in mi politika ni vsec. Tudi zelo preziram - sovrazim komuniste, zaradi katerih sem moral veliko prezgodaj v svet. Sem pa vsekakor zmiraj gorece ljubil mojo domovino in sem zmiraj bodril vsakega Slovenca, da naj bo za svoje ljudi ne pa za tujce. |
| Tretje. Slovenija dandanes, (kakor zgleda) trdovratno leti v prepad, ker se hoce uvrstiti Evropski Uniji. To bo velika pomota in bo pahnila nase ljudi spet pod palce tujcev. |
| Slovenija za Slovence! To je moje geslo s katerim bom umrl. |
| Bodite lepo pozdravljeni iz Australije in prosimo za odgovor. |
| Naše gledanje: |
| Bili smo nadvse veseli Vašega sporocila in zivega zanimanja za vprašanja o Slovencih ter o njihovem poreklu in kulturi, ki jih iznašamo na spletni strani Carantha. Pravite med drugim: Kje pa so vaši dokazi, da vsi Slovenci tako mislijo? - Pa saj tega nismo nikjer trdili, in tudi nimamo nobenega takega namena. Problemi, ki jih o Slovencih zastavljate, bi zahtevali obsezno razlago, in celo nekaj študij, tako da jih lahko na tem mestu pojasnimo le na kratko. |
| Glede naših prednikov Venetov, pravite, da jih v šolah "nikoli niso omenili niti z besedico". V šolah marsicesa niso omenili, v šolah v Avstriji in Nemciji na primer, še danes ni omenjena slovenska zgodnja drzava Karantanija. Poznajo pa "Einbruch der Slaven" (vdor Slovanov) v vzhodne Alpe. V stari in novi Jugoslaviji - da navedemo še en primer - sploh ni bila v šolskih knjigah omenjena bitka pri Sisku 1591, v kateri so kranjske cete strasno porazile Turke. In Vi mislite, da te bitke pac ni bilo, ker se o njej "v šoli" niste ucili. - O tem, da bi predniki Slovencev kdaj koli ziveli med rekama Dnjestr in Dnjepr ni nobenih virov in dokazov (kljub šoli). Imate mogoce Vi kaksne? |
| Kar zadeva "tujce" nemškega in avstrijskega porekla, bi bilo prav, da nam nekaj imen konkretno navedete. Nekoc smo bili vsi Slovenci tudi Avstrijci, ceprav ne Nemci. Ce mislite na kako plemisko rodbino, ki da je bila "nemška", bi bili veseli, ce navedete, kdaj je prišla med nas iz nemških dezel? Nemsko nacionalno gibanje je res zajelo Nemško govorece Avstrijce, vendar pa se ti danes, nimajo vec za "Nemce", kljub nemškemu jeziku. |
| Nemško govoreci Švicarji, na primer, pa se za Nemce niso imeli nikoli. Tudi Avstralci pa Americani se zaradi angleškega jezka nimajo za Angleze. |
| In glede Slovenije, saj ne drvi sama v prepad, temvec jo vlecejo. Ljudje doma pa si tega ne znajo predstavljati. Podobno je tudi drugod v postkomunisticnih drzavah. Isti ljudje doma so bili dolga leta prestrašeni, in si niso upali svobodno misliti. In tako le tezko sprejemajo tudi nova odkritja o Karantaniji, pa o njenem grbu Crnem panterju, in seveda o naših prednikih Venetih, ki niso bili Juzni Slovani. Pa saj jih tezko sprejemate tudi Vi, cetudi ze toliko let zivite v svobodnem svetu. |
| Ob vsem tem mi prihaja na misel vprašanje, ki ga je rad postavljal študentom nek profesor sociologije: "Kaj je moderno?" - Pravilen odgovor je bil: "Biti odprt za nova spoznanja!" |
| *** |
| June 10, 2003 |
| Spostovani! |
| Obiskal sem vaso stran in mi je zelo vsec. Ce se ne motim, je v teku razpis za nove drzavne simbole. Ali boste ustvarjalci spletnih strani Carantha kot avtorji sodelovali na natecaju oz kaksne so moznosti, da se crni panter kot grb in iz njega izpeljana zastava resnicno "primeta"? |
| Menim, da ste primerni za strokovno utemeljeno prepricanje ostale stroke o ustreznosti nasega zgodovinskega simbola kot uradnega drzave Slovenije. Posledicno bo potrebna prenova simbolov vojske, policije, ...mogoce skladnost pomorske zastave z novo drzavno... |
| Na tem mestu bi tako izpostavil problem celotne zunanje podobe drzave. Npr: po ISO klasifikaciji imamo oznaki: |
| dvocrkovno SI (uporabljamo v postnem prometu, internetu,...) in trocrkovno SVN (uporabljamo v novih potnih listinah,...). |
| Na avtomobilskih tablicah pa naj bi bila po vstopu v Evropo na modrem polju se kar SLO. Takih cvetk bi se naslo se en kup. |
| Dejansko pa do vstopa v EU 2004 lahko nadoknadimo izgubljeno priloznost za vecjo prepoznavnost iz zacetka 90-ih. Naj ze enkrat stroka prevlada nad politiko. |
| Zelim vam se veliko uspeha pri ustvarjanju. |
| lp |
| (Signature withheld) |
| Uredništvo: Prijateljski odzivi na naša prizadevanja za boljši slovenski jutri, ki smo jim prica na Caranthi, in kakršen je tudi gornji dopis, so nam v veliko veselje, pa tudi spodbuda za nadaljno delo. Res je, tudi pri nas smo ujeli novico o razpisu natecaja za nove drzavne simbole Slovenije. O tem je porocala tudi slovenska Rtv. Ocitno pa je, da bodisi razpisovalci natecaja kot tudi njegovi naslovljenci nimajo nikakršne strokovne predstave o grbih in praprorih. Nove simbole naj bi izdeloval kdorkoli, likovni umetnik, risar, oblikovalec, in še kakšen paradni heraldik, ki ga je bil za takšnega lansiral še star jugoslovanski rezim. Edino prava zgodovinska in drzavna simbola Slovencev sta ze dolgo poznana, in sicer Crni panter na belem šcitu kot grb ter Crni panter na belem polju kot prapor. Za njuno dolocitev ni niti potreben kakšen "natecaj", za katerega sodimo, da je samo slabo prikrito pranje javnega denarja, ce ne kar njegovo zapravljanje. Tistega denarja, ki so ga morali davkoplacevalci zasluziti s trudom in naporom, da so ga potem kot davek za javno dobro prispevali v drzavno blagajno. |
| *** |
| May 22, 2003 |
| Brizinski spomeniki bodo prispeli v Slovenijo! |
| Spostovani, |
| posiljam vam vest, ki bo morda zanimala tudi ostale bralce Caranthe: "Brizinski spomeniki (Freising Manuscripts) prihodnje leto prvic na ogled v izvirniku - Ljubljana, 22. maja (STA) - Bavarska bo maja prihodnje leto v znamenje dobrodoslice v Evropski uniji Sloveniji v razstavne namene posodila izvirnik znamenitih Brizinskih spomenikov, prvega ohranjenega zapisa slovenscine, ki je na devetih pergamentnih listih nastal konec 10. stoletja (natancneje med leti 970 in 1020). Do leta 1803 je bil v skofijski knjiznici v Freisingu - ta je imela del svojih posesti tudi na Gorenjskem, danes pa se nahaja v Bavarski drzavni knjiznici. Brizinski spomeniki v izvirniku bodo ob tej priloznosti prvic na ogled v Republiki Sloveniji, saj so bile stevilne prosnje, da bi bili razstavljeni pri nas, doslej zmeraj zavrnjene. Sklep o posoji Brizinskih spomenikov je sprejela bavarska vlada, v okviru priprav na 23. zasedanje mesane slovensko-bavarske komisije, ki bo od 8. do 10. julija v Muenchnu, pa ga je predsedujoci bavarskega dela te komisije, Erwin Huber, posredoval predsedujocemu slovenskega dela Borutu Trekmanu, so sporocili z ministrstva za zunanje zadeve. "Lep pozdrav iz Ljubljane, |
| Simon |
| Urednistvo: Hvalezni smo za sporocilo in smo veseli tega enkratnega dogodka. Dezela vlada Bavarske, nemške zvezne dezele, je s takšno gesto na prav viden nacin pokazala svoje prijateljstvo in naklonjenost do Slovenije. Spomnimo se še, da je bil decembra leta 1991 prav nemški zunanji minister Genscher tisti, ki je med clanicami Evropske zveze edini dosledno vztrajal na priznanju Slovenije, tako da so se morale tudi druge clanice vdati. V nasprotnem primeru bi tudi Slovenija postala zrtev divjanja jugoslovanske armade, podobno kot v Bosni in na Kosovem. - Ob tej priloznosti pa naj se spomnimo, da samostojna Slovenija se vedno nima svoje zgodovinske utemeljitve. Torej tistega, kar so ji doslej vladajoci rezimi vztrajno odrekali in temu primerno izkrivljali zgodovino Slovencev. Torej ne le Brizinski spomeniki, temvec se bolj zgodovinska slovenska drzava, od Karantanije naprej, je tisto, kar mora priti v zavest siroke slovenske javnosti. In na vsakem od nas je, da to spoznanje posredujemo cim sirsemu krogu slovenskih ljudi. |
| April 28, 2003 |
| Crni panter - karikature |
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| Seeing that the Carantanian panther is still timely, I'm sending you as a reminiscence of the past three vignettes, published in the Slovenian press on the threshold of the independence of Slovenia. The first vignette, above on the left, shows Mr. Milan Kucan, president of the Republic of Slovenia, in a situla with the banner of the panther and the motto: Only ahead, only ahead, as long as the wind is blowing... (Vecer, Maribor 1990). - The second vignette shows Mr. Lojze Peterle, the Slovenian minister president, during his visit in Rome, and the inscriptions: Slovenian knight in Rome, and: Battle for sovereignty (Primorske Novice, Koper 1990). - Below, the third vignette shows Mr. Dimitrij Rupel, Slovenian foreign minister, who says to the panther: "Oh, many thanks!" (Delo, Ljubljana 1990). Thus, the panther figure was considered a symbol of the independent Slovenia. |
| Odgovor urednistva Caranthe: |
| Medtem ko so Slovenska media in Slovenski komunisticni izbranci izigravali Slovenski simbol panterja se ocitno pred bralci Caranthe pojavljajo glasovi iz ljudstva ki jim je Slovenski emblem vsec. Dne 27.04.03 smo sprejeli pri Caranthi sledece povprasevanje: |
| Dobr dan mene pa samo zanima ce slucajno veste kje bi se dalo kupiti, ali pa ce se sploh da Karantansko zastavo. |
| Hvala. |
| (Signature withheld) |
| *** |
| April 26, 2003 |
| Resnicno najboljša stran na netu ampak vseeno bi lahko bilo vec clankov v slovenšcini. |
| (Signature withheld) |
| Odgovor urednistva Caranthe: |
| Veseli smo Vasega zanimanja in priznanja, in bi, seveda prav radi, objavljali slovenske clanke. Vendar obojega, angleskega in slovenskega, ne zmoremo. Carantha je namrec izraz pozrtvovalnosti in zavzetosti za slovenstvo, na katerega je treba gledati tudi od raznih drugih strani. In to drugo sliko, ki je prav nasprotna od tiste, kot so nam jo in nam jo se prikazujejo doma, bi radi prikazali se zlasti mlajsim generacijam nasih ljudi v svetu, ki znajo predvsem anglesko. Vsled tega prosimo za razumevanje. |
| *** |
| April 26, 2003 |
| Bravo! Super stran. |
| (Signature withheld) |
| *** |
| April 3, 2003 |
| When I paged through a historical book, I was very surprised to read, among other things, the following statements of the well-known Slovenian historian Milko Kos: In the period between the end of the 6th and the end of the 9th century, Slovenians did not differentiate from neighbours of the same stock and blood in the South and in the Southeast... (Milko Kos, Zgodovina Slovencev, published by Slovenska Matica, Ljubljana 1955, 34). |
| It is a matter of assertion about Slovenians, which were given by numerous authors from the 2nd half of the 19th century until the end of the 20th. The appurtenance of Slovenians to the Southern Slavs of the Balkans (South and Southeast) was first conditioned by ideology of pan-Slavism. After the WW1, when Yugoslavia, composed of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians, appeared as a state, it obviously became an ideological question for the Yugoslav national unity. Thus, the former appurtenance to Austria was depicted as a "millenary" German yoke, from which the Serbian brethren saved Slovenians. |
| Obviously, such interpretation was camouflaged by a "scientific" statement, like that of the historian Milko Kos. But there was no proof. The Southern Slavs could be characterized as a linguistic, but not as an ethnical group. So, the affirmation that they are of the same "stock and blood" as Slovenians is naive. There are no ethnical similarities between them. Belonging to the Southern Slavs should have been seen as a salvation from the great-German expansion before the WW1. But it never has been scientifically proven. Today, the results of DNA similarities of Slovenians with the northern races clearly confirm this. |
| Sergio Pipan, Trieste |
| *** |
| March 25, 2003 |
| Dear Carantha, |
| The site is looking great. I love the updates. Keep up the great and informative work. All of us Slovenes in the US appreciate what you do. |
| Tom |
| U.S.A. |
| *** |
| March 24, 2003 |
| A Victory for Carantania - Slovenia |
| In respect of any individual decision, both, pro and contra, and in sense of democracy and freedom, the results of the March 23rd referendum, in which the majority of Slovenians voted to join the European Union and NATO, were warmly greeted by the co-workers of Carantha. We would like to acknowledge this historic occasion by taking a moment to recognize the efforts of all our Slovenian friends and compatriots who have worked so diligently to correct the historical record of Slovenia and Central Europe. |
| Carantha Editor |
| *** |